31 Jul 09
Originally posted by RedmikeComrade Guevara was not killed on behalf of the Cuban revolution. He was not even Cuban. He was killed by fascist mercenaries in Bolivia. Icon and great man though he was, it's important to note that he died a martyr fighting in his home continent for his own people.
Seriously?
You really ought to get an understanding of some basic facts.
Do you know, for example, where Crde Che Guevara was, and for what purpose, when he was killed?
31 Jul 09
Originally posted by sh76Did you see the movie? When he left Florida the Coast Guard would have stopped him if they weren't so confused as to why a ship was leaving the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave to go to the Socialist Hellfire Evil Place Where Fidel Eats Little Children.
The coast guard stopped him when he went into Guantanamo Bay into a restricted area.
No one stopped him from going to Cuba.
You would have no problem getting to Cuba based on US sanctions. Your only problem would be getting back home. But, I'm sure you would have no need to do so after living in paradise.
31 Jul 09
Originally posted by bill718Yes everyone. Relax. Remain docile. Smile and nod. If they say jump ask how high and if they strike you say, "Thanks, may I have another?"
Seems to me there is much to worry about these days:
1. Economic Turmoil
2. Social Unrest
3. Too Many Unnecessary Wars
4. Too Much Government Waste
5. Dishonest Political Leaders
Relax folks, and ask yourself, when in the course of the last
3000+ years have these things been absent?? Answer:
Never! Try to find happiness in the little things in ...[text shortened]... nges, the
more it stays the same, and the hand just rearranges the
players in the game. 😏
In all seriousness, life is a balance. Taking life to seriously is a mistake but so is not taking it seriously enough.
01 Aug 09
1 edit
Originally posted by scherzoStill wondering why you went to the US and became a citizen there instead of Cuba.
Did you see the movie? When he left Florida the Coast Guard would have stopped him if they weren't so confused as to why a ship was leaving the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave to go to the Socialist Hellfire Evil Place Where Fidel Eats Little Children.
01 Aug 09
Originally posted by scherzoHe was killed in Bolivia, alongside forces sent from Cuba.
Comrade Guevara was not killed on behalf of the Cuban revolution. He was not even Cuban. He was killed by fascist mercenaries in Bolivia. Icon and great man though he was, it's important to note that he died a martyr fighting in his home continent for his own people.
The fact that he wasn't Cuban is irrelevant.
Similarly, have you not heard of Cuba's involvement in Angola, as another example.
You're simply ignorant of the basic facts. This was clear on another thread about the Middle East, and you're demonstrating the same level of ignorance about Cuba.
01 Aug 09
Originally posted by RedmikeTake that avatar off. You're not worth it.
He was killed in Bolivia, alongside forces sent from Cuba.
The fact that he wasn't Cuban is irrelevant.
Similarly, have you not heard of Cuba's involvement in Angola, as another example.
You're simply ignorant of the basic facts. This was clear on another thread about the Middle East, and you're demonstrating the same level of ignorance about Cuba.
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB5/index.html#chron
01 Aug 09
Originally posted by RedmikeComrade Guevara was not acting on behalf of the Cuban government when he was killed.
What does your link show which is different from what I've said?
And have you nothing to say about Cuba's commendable action in Angola, amongst other places?
Angola was a proxy war, but one that was necessary to fight. I'm not sure how it constitutes a foreign war; it was Cuban assistance to leftists fighting apartheid South Africa (Israel's second-greatest benefactor, incidentally) and Zaire.
01 Aug 09
1 edit
Originally posted by scherzoOf course he was acting on behalf of the Cuban government. Why did they give him a hero's funeral otherwise?
Comrade Guevara was not acting on behalf of the Cuban government when he was killed.
Angola was a proxy war, but one that was necessary to fight. I'm not sure how it constitutes a foreign war; it was Cuban assistance to leftists fighting apartheid South Africa (Israel's second-greatest benefactor, incidentally) and Zaire.
Angola constitutes a foreign war because, doh, it involves Cuban troops fighting a war in a foreign country.
In what way is it not a foreign war?
02 Aug 09
Originally posted by Redmikec'mon. why WOULDN'T they have given him a hero's funeral, as long as the break with Cuba wasn't open?
Of course he was acting on behalf of the Cuban government. Why did they give him a hero's funeral otherwise?
Angola constitutes a foreign war because, doh, it involves Cuban troops fighting a war in a foreign country.
In what way is it not a foreign war?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Che#Leaves_Cuba
...
In Algiers on February 24, 1965, he made what turned out to be his last public appearance on the international stage when he delivered a speech at an economic seminar on Afro-Asian solidarity.[96] He specified the moral duty of the socialist countries, accusing them of tacit complicity with the exploiting Western countries. He proceeded to outline a number of measures which he said the communist-bloc countries must implement in order to accomplish the defeat of imperialism.[97] Having criticized the Soviet Union (the primary financial backer of Cuba) in such a public manner, he returned to Cuba on March 14 to a solemn reception by Fidel and Raúl Castro, Osvaldo Dorticós and Carlos Rafael Rodríguez at the Havana airport.
Two weeks later, in 1965 Guevara dropped out of public life and then vanished altogether. His whereabouts were a great mystery in Cuba, as he was generally regarded as second in power to Castro himself. His disappearance was variously attributed to the failure of the industrialization scheme he had advocated while minister of industry, to pressure exerted on Castro by Soviet officials disapproving of Guevara's pro-Chinese Communist stance on the Sino-Soviet split, and to serious differences between Guevara and the pragmatic Castro regarding Cuba's economic development and ideological line. Castro had grown increasingly wary of Guevara's popularity and considered him a potential threat. Castro's critics sometimes say his explanations for Guevara's disappearance have always been suspect.
Walking through Red Square in Moscow, November 1964The coincidence of Guevara's views with those expounded by the Chinese Communist leadership was increasingly problematic for Cuba as the nation's economy became more and more dependent on the Soviet Union. Since the early days of the Cuban revolution, Guevara had been considered by many an advocate of Maoist strategy in Latin America and the originator of a plan for the rapid industrialization of Cuba which was frequently compared to China's "Great Leap Forward". According to Western observers of the Cuban situation, the fact that Guevara was opposed to Soviet conditions and recommendations that Castro pragmatically saw as necessary, may have been the reason for his disappearance. However, both Guevara and Castro were supportive publicly on the idea of a united front.
Following the Cuban Missile Crisis and what Guevara perceived as a Soviet betrayal when Nikita Khrushchev withdrew the missiles from Cuban territory, Guevara had grown more skeptical of the Soviet Union. As revealed in his last speech in Algiers, he had come to view the Northern Hemisphere, led by the U.S. in the West and the Soviet Union in the East, as the exploiter of the Southern Hemisphere. He strongly supported Communist North Vietnam in the Vietnam War, and urged the peoples of other developing countries to take up arms and create "many Vietnams".[98]
Pressed by international speculation regarding Guevara's fate, Castro stated on June 16, 1965 that the people would be informed when Guevara himself wished to let them know. Still, rumors spread both inside and outside Cuba. On October 3, Castro revealed an undated letter purportedly written to him by Guevara some months earlier: in it, Guevara reaffirmed his enduring solidarity with the Cuban Revolution, but declared his intention to leave Cuba to fight for the revolutionary cause abroad. Additionally, he resigned from all his positions in the government and party, and renounced his honorary Cuban citizenship.[99] Guevara's movements continued to be a closely guarded secret for the next two years.
02 Aug 09
Originally posted by scherzoyeah, Cuba is so good, and yet there are people who can't wait to escape to the US. I wonder why.
There is no economic turmoil in Cuba.
There is little social unrest in Cuba, and the little that's there is stirred up by pro-Batista fascists.
Socialist Cuba has never fought an aggressive or foreign war.
The Cuban government has not wasted anything, as they have very little that they could waste (thank the US for that).
Neither Fidel nor Raul are disho ...[text shortened]... 1. I can also give examples for the current governments of Libya, Iran, Venezuela, and Ghana.
02 Aug 09
Originally posted by zeeblebotThere are some conspiracy theories, but the conventional view, as I understand it, is that Che wasn't happy in the role of an administrator, actually running the country, and was restless to get back to guerilla warfare.
c'mon. why WOULDN'T they have given him a hero's funeral, as long as the break with Cuba wasn't open?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Che#Leaves_Cuba
...
In Algiers on February 24, 1965, he made what turned out to be his last public appearance on the international stage when he delivered a speech at an economic seminar on Afro-Asian solidarity.[96] ...[text shortened]... a's movements continued to be a closely guarded secret for the next two years.
Whether there was some kind of ideological split isn't clear, but he was known to be more in the Chinese than Soviet camp. But the USSR was buying the sugar, so called the shots.
But he went to Bolivia with the blessing of Castro.
Bottom line is that Cuba has sent forces to fight abroad - there might be different versions re what happened to Che, but there are other cases (Angola) which are beyond dispute.
03 Aug 09
Originally posted by RedmikeOf course he was acting on behalf of the Cuban government. Why did they give him a hero's funeral otherwise?
Of course he was acting on behalf of the Cuban government. Why did they give him a hero's funeral otherwise?
Angola constitutes a foreign war because, doh, it involves Cuban troops fighting a war in a foreign country.
In what way is it not a foreign war?
Oh, it can't be because he was an icon and a huge assistance to the revolution! That would be way too obvious!
Angola constitutes a foreign war because, doh, it involves Cuban troops fighting a war in a foreign country.
It wasn't Cuba v. Angola. It was Cuba assisting one side of Angolans in a civil war against capitalist and/or right-wing Angolan forces.