09 Jan 08
Originally posted by RSMA1234In my job I have contact with many Muslims, male and female, and there is NO WAY that the majority of these are radical / terroists. They have the same sense of humour and ideals as any other decent person.
It might be something to do with the fact that Muslims families have more children (in general) than non-muslim families and the declining birth rate overall.
Being called M (PBUH) is no big deal, no I'm not sure what your actually saying ?
Are you linkng radical Islam to the name ?
Or are you suggesting that with the increasing off the name, the UK would also have an increase in radicals ?
In some of my discussions, I have asked 'well, do you really believe?' and the answer is often 'not really!'. 'Why, then, pray and go through the ritual?'. Answer 'Just to keep my parents happy'. And, maybe the parents are just trying to keep their parents happy!
Just an observation - I am not trying to be offensive to anyone. But, just maybe, atheism is more prevalent amongst Muslims than is generally accepted. I went through the Catholic Rituals when I was young, never really believing.
09 Jan 08
2 edits
Originally posted by Sam The ShamFor instance...
Odd, I thought the article was right on the money and directly addressed the situation.
"The last national census in 2001 put the UK Muslim population at 1.6million, but this will have grown substantially in the past five years."
Let's just say for the sake of argument it has tripled in 5 years... yes that is a gross exxageration just to help your case a bit...
The population would be 4.5 million, out of a total population of around 60 million. That's hardly a majority, and remember, I grossly exxaggerated the figures. If only 1% of british children are called Jack, but 100% of islamic children are called mohammed, for example, you're going to see it come high in the list.
Incidentally, 1.6mil/60 mil is around 2.7%, compare that to Frances islamic population of 9%. Why would British islam be so much more of a lobby group in Britain than here in France? Well, because here, your religious views are just that, views. Youwear a hijab? No, can't wear that in a public school... by the way, you have to spend at least some of your time in a public school, no private brainwashing facilities allowed. Same goes for skullcaps and crucifi. Hence, islam here is a religion, not a lobby group, as is every religion, just as it should be.
Using baby names as a rudimentary census method is what is the ridiculous part. What is not ridiculous is that such a tiny tiny number have such an inflated voice.
09 Jan 08
Originally posted by Sam The ShamOf course Mohammed is a popular name. A large percentage of the Islamic population name their sons Mohammed.
It's too late, friend. Muhammed is now the 2nd most popular name for boys in Great Britain.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23428641-details/Mohammed%20now%20second%20most%20popular%20boys’%20name%20in%20Britain/article.do?expand=true#StartComments
But don't fret, sacrificing England to be politically correct and celebrate diversity will be appreciated by the new majority.
At the moment, for example, 10% of the Dutch population is Islamic, but Mohammed is in the top 5 most popular boy names.
Same as in Britain.
09 Jan 08
1 edit
Another point, in Britain, a teenager wearing a hoodie gets an AntiSocial Behaviour Order (ASBO) yet an MP who simply requested, not demanded, requested, that islamic female constituents consider removing their face covering so that he could talk to them face to face was lambasted by the islamic community.
09 Jan 08
Originally posted by agrysonIts goes without saying that you have to be a citizen off the EU for the freedom off movement acts to apply, and as the EU does have a high proportion of Muslims (that are citizens) by not allow EU Muslims immigration from other EU countries, this would break the law as well as their human rights.
Religion marks culture, not race.
They need to have been a citizen of an EU country before EU freedom of movement law applies, where did they all come from?
I do have an issue with targetting just muslims, if a policy is to be made, it should be across the board and justifiable. I go into more detail on removing religions diplomatic immunity in my prev ...[text shortened]... e test is more to see that you can speak and understand English than anything else.
I agree in that you can’t just target one group and it has too be all or nothing rule.
I just used France as an example, but the theory does hold in that if you are a Muslim EU citizen, you have the right to immigrate to any country in the EU including UK
Everyone is free to criticism, but how this is done is important. It can be done in a knowledgeable logical manner or insulting BNP type manner, I think the former is important to reduce conflicts and try to increasing understanding.
It depends on the level off tolerance, I agree to a degree that PC has gone a little mad, but at the same time British people in general do tolerate other faiths, maybe something to do with the days of the “good old Empire”, but that does help in general for Muslims (and other faiths / people) to integrate.
Bit confused about the Sharia Law comment? As far as I’m aware Sharia law is not valid in UK law courts, so unsure off your point their.
I love the UK (where I live) because it a good place to live that is tolerate, for example I went to a football game last night, 10 years ago I would have had the hell kicked out off me for being at one, now I can go and watch without the hassles.
The link I was making is that Muslims have contributed to British culture and enriched it, (most Indian curry house are actually run by Bengali’s). by excluding all Muslims (as suggested in the original posting), your reducing the possible enrichment off society.
So what do you mean by Islamic immigration?
I think you completely missed the point about the test, of course you don’t integrate with Physics, but you do gain an understanding off physics.
By taking the test you do gain an understanding off the culture (limited, but better than nothing)
I think the whole confusion occurs when something is considered to be a local custom (like going to the pub on a Friday night or having a binge drinking session), and this does not fit into the faith / culture off the people immigrating over. Thus Muslims should not drink for example, so by them not following the “custom” off going to the pub, is that really fair to say they are not integrating ?
What does integration mean?
09 Jan 08
Originally posted by agrysonCan you give me an example to understand you question a bit better
So, as a muslim (I presume you are, as you added peace be upon him after mention of your prophets name, correct me if I'm wrong), would you agree or disagree with the idea that religious speech should be given no special priority over any other? I do not propose the removal of rights or even a change in law, just a change in attitude towards the immunity of religious views to criticism in the professional domain in Britain?
09 Jan 08
Originally posted by znshoZ,
In my job I have contact with many Muslims, male and female, and there is NO WAY that the majority of these are radical / terroists. They have the same sense of humour and ideals as any other decent person.
In some of my discussions, I have asked 'well, do you really believe?' and the answer is often 'not really!'. 'Why, then, pray and go through the rit ...[text shortened]... accepted. I went through the Catholic Rituals when I was young, never really believing.
You have every right to question things, that life and I’m not offended.
Maybe I can explain it in a way to you that might help, as you know I was born in London, schooled in London, Uni in London, work in London etc, I too went through a period as you mentioned below.
Why I went through that period was that I was a little confused, at a younger age I was off their viewpoint because I was unsure if I was Pakistani or English, this confusion is common amongst Muslims that are born in the UK.
After time you tend to start to question yourself and try to understand why you in effect say one thing but do another, you then start to realise that actually you are both, you are both English / Pakistani, you start to explore your roots / culture /faith in more depth.
What you find is that you gain an understanding and thus start to realise and work towards a medium in life, thus increase your understanding off Islam, thus whist many young guys / girls are in effect how you describe, if you still notice them in years to come, they will have changed
It also depends on your folk off course, my folks are cool (just like your I’m sure) but they never pressured me to follow or do anything I did not understand or agree with.
Hope that helps
09 Jan 08
Originally posted by agrysonI’m not sure on that really, I wear hoodies all the time as do my younger bro’s, so their must be more to it than just wearing the hoodies.
Another point, in Britain, a teenager wearing a hoodie gets an AntiSocial Behaviour Order (ASBO) yet an MP who simply requested, not demanded, requested, that islamic female constituents consider removing their face covering so that he could talk to them face to face was lambasted by the islamic community.
I’ve heard of some shopping centres banning hoodies, but never a person for getting a ASBO for wearing one.
With regards to the MP issue, I presume your talking about Jack Straw incident, but I think that in this situation, the women could have removed the Hajib to confirm the identity and then add it back on.
She choose not too, no reason I can see for that, but in general Muslim female constituents (who are many in my London part of town) don’t have issues with this and in our Muslim Community (which is 10 k +) its never been an issue.
09 Jan 08
RSMA1234, I have a question for you: Which of the following is racist?
You leave your country of birth and immigrate to a Western country and:
A) Move to an ethnic enclave (i.e. racial "ghetto"😉.
B) Refuse to learn the language and customs of the host country.
C) Get satellite TV just so you can watch Al Jazeera.
D) Refuse to work and go on the dole.
E) Go back to the country of your birth and bring back a bride who doesn't know the language or customs of the host country.
F) Have lots of children, thus increasing the amount of "benefits" you receive and your burden to the taxpayers of the host country.
G) Join a Mosque with a hate-preaching Imam.
H) Demand that the host country ignore its laws and leave you and your kind to police yourselves under your own religious law.
I) Demand that the host country's schools turn its institutions upside down to accommodate your religious beliefs?
J) Denounce citizens of your host country as "unclean" and "infidels" worthy of death.
K) Blow something or somebody up because your religion compels you to.