08 Jun 06
2 edits
Originally posted by Conrau Kmy understanding of the environmental problems with solar power are:
Solar power might reduce gas emmissions but it's not as environmentally friendly as everyone thinks. The silicon components are derived from sand deposits and the process of harvesting the silicon destroys the environment.
And coming from Australia we can appreciate our beaches (though nuclear power pants have to be situated near water systems so I think they'll be compromised anyway).
-the chemicals used in some solar panels are not very nice.
- the power is only there when the sun shines, and often must be stored using nasty batteries.
the solar tower does not have those funny chemicals (just lots of concrete, and a huge glasshouse).
as for the storage problem: the tower would also release power around the clock, with peak production in the afternoon, coinciding with peak consumption.
other forms of power are already available in australia, and can be used as well ... especially hydro.
this method is not for everyone ... but china, australia and texas seem to be likely first places.
08 Jun 06
Originally posted by flexmoreYou can add wind and tidal power too.
my understanding of the environmental problems with solar power are:
-the chemicals used in some solar panels are not very nice.
- the power is only there when the sun shines, and often must be stored using nasty batteries.
the solar tower does not have those funny chemicals (just lots of concrete, and a huge glasshouse).
as for the storage proble ...[text shortened]... is method is not for everyone ... but china, australia and texas seem to be likely first places.
Solutions have to happen at a localised level feeding back onto the grid.
08 Jun 06
You can also add gym power.
Every day there are gym's around the city with people working out in them. Why not harness that energy rather than waste it ?
According to WeightWacthers, each 30-minute workout at a circuit training gym for women burns about 630 kilojoules for a 68 kilogram woman.
Watts = Joules/seconds
So our single 69 kilogram woman burns at 350 Watts.
Imagine all the people in all the gyms combined !!!
Can anyone show calculations allowing for number of gyms, efficiency, etc ???
08 Jun 06
Originally posted by Sambo69this would be primarily a feelgood exercise (pardon the pun).
You can also add gym power.
Every day there are gym's around the city with people working out in them. Why not harness that energy rather than waste it ?
According to WeightWacthers, each 30-minute workout at a circuit training gym for women burns about 630 kilojoules for a 68 kilogram woman.
Watts = Joules/seconds
So our single 69 kilogram woman ...[text shortened]... s combined !!!
Can anyone show calculations allowing for number of gyms, efficiency, etc ???
i think the human body can only make a few hundred watts.
a gymfull of exercisers may power the lighting in their own room, perhaps even give power to the computer run by the business .. but they would never be able to run their airconditioner.
08 Jun 06
1 edit
Originally posted by flexmoreThere was an article in a recent New Scientist about a new way to make one photon produce not one electron but at least two and maybe even more, leading to maybe 40-50% efficient cells.
my understanding of the environmental problems with solar power are:
-the chemicals used in some solar panels are not very nice.
- the power is only there when the sun shines, and often must be stored using nasty batteries.
the solar tower does not have those funny chemicals (just lots of concrete, and a huge glasshouse).
as for the storage proble ...[text shortened]... is method is not for everyone ... but china, australia and texas seem to be likely first places.
The second problem you give about storing electric power for nighttime use of solar energy. The storage of power can be done in ways not requiring chemical reactions. Two that come to mind are superconducting coils, they suck up energy and keep it from dissapating at almost 100% efficiency. Another way is a rotor inside a vacuum with coils on it that can couple magnetically to the outside world, held up by magnetic bearings, no physical contact with bearings so it floats on a magnetic field in a vacuum so it can store energy for weeks and store hundreds of megawatthours. These techniques avoid any chemical reactions and are relatively benign ecologically speaking. The solar card is going to get a lot easier to play in another 5 or so years.
Fusion power is a big gamble but I think the problems will be solved eventually, even if it takes another 50 years it will have been proven to be worth it. It is not as clean as the propaganda sheets would like you to believe but its a thousand times better than fission. Fission is just plain bad, for one thing, a terroist target, they would love to get some kind of missile to blow one up and make an entire region uninhabitale Ala Chernobyl, and even if it was built a mile underground in an earthquake free zone, you have to deal with an ever growing pile of nuclear waste, that is unacceptable in MHO. We can do the hydrogen thing but hydrogen is just another battery, its not an energy SOURCE. You have to have the real energy source, whatever that may be, solar, fission, fusion, and convert that energy into splitting the H from H2O and of course when it burns you get just a plume of steam out the exhaust which is a nice closed system but that alone does not solve the energy supply problem, although it would help eliminate greenhouse gasses if you were not forced to use (shudder) coal or wood to get the H2. So when all is said and done,
our energy will come from a variety of sources, wind, (which ultimately derives from solar power), wave, solar, fission, fusion (hopefully) and maybe some we have yet to see. Wouldn't it be great if cold fusion turned out to be real after all?
For instance, solar power could work for a commuter car, at least in a sunny environment. Suppose you actually had those so far mythicall 50 % solar cells and had as many of them as you could fit onto a little commuter car tied to a decent energy storage device, you could have enough energy stored up to get you to work and then the car soaks up energy the rest of the day and it has enough energy built up to get you home. Obviously you can't get enough power from solar cells even if they were 99% effiecient to drive cars directly, I don't think you would see more than a couple of HP max from solar cells that would fit on a small car but over a period of 8 hours, it might be able to charge up the battery (whatever that turns out to be, mechanical, superconductive, chemical) with enough energy to get you home again without the use of some fuel. Now that coupled with something like hydrogen, you might have your cake and eat it too, a car that can be driven off H2 if you have to go on a long trip or leave the car in a sunny parking lot to charge up while its just parked. I figure 20 years for that technology to mature to the point where we can throw out the piston engine.
08 Jun 06
1 edit
Originally posted by Palynkai would not like to see a functioning fusion plant ... i believe the responsible use of vast quantites of power is not likely.
You're against what? Research in fusion?
we would go from having the comparitively minor problem of greenhouse warming to a massive problem of outrageous energy usage on frivolous things.
i could imagine tourists in the arctic circle wanting to swim in a warm ocean, and other tourists wanting to snow ski at the equator at sea level.
08 Jun 06
Originally posted by VapataUses alot of energy to produce the turbines. Very inefficient power generation per unit area (i.e. no good for countries like Japan with dense populations). Need lots of wind.
Although I like the ideas of solar power and fission, wind power couldn't hurt, could it?
08 Jun 06
Originally posted by flexmoreMaybe. Can you help come up with the calculations ?
this would be primarily a feelgood exercise (pardon the pun).
i think the human body can only make a few hundred watts.
a gymfull of exercisers may power the lighting in their own room, perhaps even give power to the computer run by the business .. but they would never be able to run their airconditioner.
08 Jun 06
1 edit
Originally posted by VapataWindfarms only hurt you if you live near one, or if you're a bird. In fact, if you live near one, you could lose your sanity (along with some equity).
Although I like the ideas of solar power and fission, wind power couldn't hurt, could it?
08 Jun 06
Originally posted by flexmoreActually, solar power is generated by nuclear power...
to replace these smelly coal dinosaurs, should we use nuclear or solar power plants?
i do not understand why we even consider nuclear power in australia.
the solar tower simply looks better.
http://www.watervilleresearch.com/companies/special/273-1.html
08 Jun 06
5 edits
Originally posted by Sambo69have a check on your electrical goods, they mostly have a figure in watts written near the power supply.
Maybe. Can you help come up with the calculations ?
radio 20w
light globe 60w
tv 55w
heater 2000w
the 150 w produced per person will not go very far.
given that the gym will almost certainly be airconditioned and supply cooled drinks, it will require an outside source of energy dwarfing the energy produced by the exercisers.
there is a different arguement that makes some sense: if people rode bicycles to and from work instead of driving to and from work, then there is an significant reduction in fuel usage ... and they would not need to use a gym.
08 Jun 06
Originally posted by darvlayActually property values near modern wind farms have a neutral to slight positive increase in value, generally speaking. Also, for modern tubular tower designs properly sited, the avian mortality rate is about 2 birds per wind turbine per year. The avian mortality rate for a large building is 100s per year. For a guy-wired towers, such as communication and cell phone towers, the number is in the 1000s.
Windfarms only hurt you if you live near one, or if you're a bird. In fact, if you live near one, you could lose your sanity (along with some equity).
However, some types of bats do have problems with turbines.