05 May 09
Originally posted by AThousandYoungThere's a lot of Pashtuns in the Pakistani military. And there's something fishy about the insistence on disarming anti-Taliban militias before 'attacking' the Taliban ... http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20090505.PAKISTAN05ART2240/TPStory/International
The Pakistanis are protecting them from the US! They need to either take them out themselves or let us do it. Currently, they're protecting them from the US as well as skirmishing with them.
05 May 09
Originally posted by Bosse de NageSanctions aren't a form of intervention; deciding not to do business with someone because you disapprove of them doesn't interfere with their internal processes. Resisting the SA invasion of Angola also has little to do with internal SA politics. An apartheid, militarily aggressive SA was a direct threat to the other states in the region and they acted in their interests to defend themselves.
The USSR provided training and funding. The frontline states provided bases. Cuban soldiers supported by Soviet advisers were directly involved in fighting South African government forces in Angola. This all translates into material support for the armed struggle in South Africa. US sanctions exerted economic pressure. Sanctions are a form of intervent ...[text shortened]... .
Here's a statement by RAWA for context:
http://www.rawa.org/events/dec10-07_e.htm
If you have a story to tell, tell it. Your vague insinuations that the Taliban could only have existed and thrived with US "funding" are speculation with little basis in fact.
Sorry, "funding" someone or something is not morally equivalent to invading another country and killing those who disagree with you. I don't see how it's any of the US' business what individual Saudis and Pakistanis do with their money. If they want to toss it to Sheik Omar, that's up to them. You can make a donation to RAWA if you want to.
05 May 09
1 edit
Originally posted by dystoniacIgnorance is bliss. There's very little those four organizations agree on in the long run and the term "Islamofascist" is a recently coined pejorative term that means nothing.
Who gives a fluck? Taliban, Al-Qaeda, Islamofascist, Hamas, Hezbullah, etc.....they all want the same thing....ultimately.
05 May 09
Originally posted by no1marauderI'm selectively quoting this because it's the only bit I can be bothered to respond to. Your blarney about sanctions and South Africa is about the stupidest thing I've read from you this year.
Sorry, "funding" someone or something is not morally equivalent to invading another country and killing those who disagree with you. I don't see how it's any of the US' business what individual Saudis and Pakistanis do with their money. If they want to toss it to Sheik Omar, that's up to them. You can make a donation to RAWA if you want to.
I don't see a moral difference between paying someone else to shoot you and doing it myself.
05 May 09
Originally posted by Bosse de NageYou "debate" like a five year old.
I'm selectively quoting this because it's the only bit I can be bothered to respond to. Your blarney about sanctions and South Africa is about the stupidest thing I've read from you this year.
I don't see a moral difference between paying someone else to shoot you and doing it myself.
BTW, I didn't see anything on the RAWA site you gave which asked the US to do anything but get out of Afghanistan. Specifically, I didn't see any mention about wanting the US government (which RAWA obviously holds in contempt) to pressure the Saudis and Pakistanis to do anything. In fact, they seem to agree with me:
We believe that if these troops leave Afghanistan, our people will not feel any kind of vacuum but rather will become more free and come out of their current puzzlement and doubts. In such a situation, they will face the Taliban and Northern Alliance without their “national” mask, and rise to fight with these terrorist enemies. Neither the US nor any other power wants to release Afghan people from the fetters of the fundamentalists. Afghanistan’s freedom can be achieved by Afghan people themselves.
Maybe I'll send them a donation.
05 May 09
3 edits
Originally posted by dystoniacI have not read all the posting, but just saw this thread
What should the world do about the possibility of the Taliban gaining control of Pakistan's nukes? Some ideas: Should Europe step in and prevent this? Should a coalition of NATO countries do something? Should the U.S. do something or nothing? I don't believe Pakistan can prevent this alone...do you? Who sholud do what?
Or, should we just do nothing ou think? Am I fantasizing? Is this scenario totally unacceptable? If so, why/why not?
Pakistan does not keep the nuke components together or the keys for example
All are kept in different locations, also, everything is under the direct control of the military
Regradless of what some users may think, the nukes are safe and will not fall into the hands of the Taliban...I know this for a FACT as controls are very, very strong, thus outside interfevce is not required
Whlist its true that SWAT for example has been givern to the Taliban as part of a peace deal (which has been broken by the Taliban and is now leading to war in that region again, 500,000 have just feld the region for example), no other nation / coalition on this world has the right to interfer in Pakistan's domestic issues full stop.
Lets not forget that the reason why their are so many Taliban in Pakistan is down to the illigel war in Afganistan and as a direct result so many fighters are now coming into Pakistan
If outside forces wish for there to be stability in the region, then stop the illegal war and allow self determination for the Afgan people without the puppet goverment that only has control in Kabal
05 May 09
Originally posted by RSMA1234No it's not.
Lets not forget that the reason why their are so many Taliban in Pakistan is down to the illigel war in Afganistan and as a direct result so many fighters are now coming into Pakistan
The Taliban, as you call them, are a religious group within the Pashtun people.
The Pashtun people live in an area encompassing Afghanistan, Pakistan, bits of India and bits of Iran.
So, coming to a point I made some posts past, you see that the "country-divide" just doesn't work down there, no matter how much the Mogol's, the English, the Russians or the US try.
05 May 09
Originally posted by shavixmirActually S
No it's not.
The Taliban, as you call them, are a religious group within the Pashtun people.
The Pashtun people live in an area encompassing Afghanistan, Pakistan, bits of India and bits of Iran.
So, coming to a point I made some posts past, you see that the "country-divide" just doesn't work down there, no matter how much the Mogol's, the English, the Russians or the US try.
We are both party right, the Taloban are not only made up of the Pashtun people, they are also made up of varies other nationalities, whilst the majority are Pashtun, they are not all.
Let me try to explain in a different way, until the war on terror, Pakistan did not have a issue with the Taliban or the Pashtun people, in general, its only after the last war started in Afganistan did this become more of an issue
05 May 09
Originally posted by RSMA1234Well yeah.
Actually S
We are both party right, the Taloban are not only made up of the Pashtun people, they are also made up of varies other nationalities, whilst the majority are Pashtun, they are not all.
Let me try to explain in a different way, until the war on terror, Pakistan did not have a issue with the Taliban or the Pashtun people, in general, its only after the last war started in Afganistan did this become more of an issue
It's like the Japanese attacking Pearl Harbour, isn't it?
The people in Texas had nothing to do with it, but they sure as hell got their knickers in a twist about it.
05 May 09
Originally posted by shavixmirNot sure what you point is
Well yeah.
It's like the Japanese attacking Pearl Harbour, isn't it?
The people in Texas had nothing to do with it, but they sure as hell got their knickers in a twist about it.
When the Jap's attacked Pearl Habour, did this not bring the US into WW2 ?
So if the US are in the war, then why would a person from Texas not be up in arms about it ?
05 May 09
Originally posted by RSMA1234Exactly.
Not sure what you point is
When the Jap's attacked Pearl Habour, did this not bring the US into WW2 ?
So if the US are in the war, then why would a person from Texas not be up in arms about it ?
So when you attack Pashtuns in Afghanistan... how the hell do you reckon the Pashtuns everywhere else are going to react? It's not a nation like we have nations.
05 May 09
Originally posted by KazetNagorraif they were "mainly interested in living a comfortable life", they'd be doing things like inviting McDonald's Corp. to Taliban-controlled regions, have you seen anything close to that?
Actually, the vast majority of them are mainly interested in leading a comfortable life. Pissing off the rest of the world so they lose power isn't exactly helping them achieve that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban#Life_under_the_Taliban_regime
subheadings:
Treatment of Women
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban_treatment_of_women
Prohibitions on culture
Buddhas of Bamiyan
Ethnic massacres and persecution
Economy
Peace did not bring economic development to Afghanistan. The so-called "transportation mafia" operating out of Pakistan "cut down millions of acres of timber in Afghanistan for the Pakistani market, denuding the countryside as there was no reforestation. They stripped down rusting factories, ... even electricity and telephone poles for their steel and sold the scrap to steel mills in Lahore."[72]
Opium
Conscription
05 May 09
Originally posted by dystoniacdo nothing, wait til it happens, and then decide. maybe we'll get lucky and the first nuke will make it to Europe, instead.
What should the world do about the possibility of the Taliban gaining control of Pakistan's nukes? Some ideas: Should Europe step in and prevent this? Should a coalition of NATO countries do something? Should the U.S. do something or nothing? I don't believe Pakistan can prevent this alone...do you? Who sholud do what?
Or, should we just do nothing ...[text shortened]... ou think? Am I fantasizing? Is this scenario totally unacceptable? If so, why/why not?
05 May 09
Originally posted by RSMA1234What's illegal about the war in Afghanistan?
I have not read all the posting, but just saw this thread
Pakistan does not keep the nuke components together or the keys for example
All are kept in different locations, also, everything is under the direct control of the military
Regradless of what some users may think, the nukes are safe and will not fall into the hands of the Taliban...I know t ...[text shortened]... determination for the Afgan people without the puppet goverment that only has control in Kabal