Debates
04 Dec 08
08 Dec 08
Originally posted by spruce112358San't wait to get me some of that Communized Medicine.
NICE, the organization that determines whether health care options are cost-effective in the UK has decided that $22,750 is the maximum it will pay to extend someone's life by 6 months, with a whole year worth $45,500.
As I calculate it, then, a baby expected to live 75 years is worth $3,412,500, while someone who is 30 with the same life expectancy ...[text shortened]... t a 70 year old only $227,500.
Doesn't this somehow say that old people are "worth less"?
09 Dec 08
Originally posted by smw6869What IS your f---ing problem, Sonny? I agreed with you! Still you want to insult me? What is the meaning of "you docs"? I'm not a doctor. Thus, I don't have any idea WTF you're talking about. As for Obama and head-cranking--what has THAT got to do with the value of the lives of our elderly? Do you have ADHD or somethin'?
My daughter would crank you docs head off for you. She was an ant in Iraq for 15 months. She did a lot of head cranking (on innocent civilians) just ask Obama. Get my meaning yet?
GRANNY.
No, I don't get your meaning---no one would follow your muddled ramblings. Can't you just clearly state what you mean? Or would that be too "intellectual" a pursuit for you to sink to?
09 Dec 08
Originally posted by PinkFloydIf you see a "sonny" kick his ass and tell him i sent ya? I misspelled "Your" docs. Couldn't you figure that out?. Try keeping up with your reading and you'll know what Obama said about killing civilians. Why did you agree with me if you don't know what cranking heads meant? You agreed to something knowing you had no idea idea what it meant? Are you mentally ill? The value of elderly lives? You seemed to get it in you previous post. I keep telling you, You need a good memory if you want to be a good liar without being caught. You're caught again.
What IS your f---ing problem, Sonny? I agreed with you! Still you want to insult me? What is the meaning of "you docs"? I'm not a doctor. Thus, I don't have any idea WTF you're talking about. As for Obama and head-cranking--what has THAT got to do with the value of the lives of our elderly? Do you have ADHD or somethin'?
No, I don't get ...[text shortened]... tate what you mean? Or would that be too "intellectual" a pursuit for you to sink to?
GRANNY.
09 Dec 08
Originally posted by smw6869I "agreed" with you about the value of life (which IS, sfter all, the topic of the thread). I didn't agree with you about cranking heads because that is gibberish. You excel at babbling gibberish, and then being able to define your "words" when confronted. There are two possibilties: You are either unwilling to defend your words by defining them, or you are unable to do so. Either way, you are the one who looks small, as is evidenced by the other posts. So until you can debate like an adult, Sonny, just go on rambling to others who may find it entertaining. I find the whole "I'm-a-patriot-cuz-I-still-kiss-vietnam-vet's-asses" a bit trite.
If you see a "sonny" kick his ass and tell him i sent ya? I misspelled "Your" docs. Couldn't you figure that out?. Try keeping up with your reading and you'll know what Obama said about killing civilians. Why did you agree with me if you don't know what cranking heads meant? You agreed to something knowing you had no idea idea what it meant? Are you mentall ...[text shortened]... ory if you want to be a good liar without being caught. You're caught again.
GRANNY.
09 Dec 08
Originally posted by AThousandYoungWhat is your point? I'm not a billionaire, I cannot possibly fund aids drugs for all from a university scholarship. Are you trying to say all small government expenses are bad, or you can only approve of certain small government expenses if you are willing to fund them personally? That doesn't make any sense.
So, they're cheap if someone else pays for them, but not if YOU pay for them...
Providing aids drugs for all would cost a minute fraction of the combined GDP of Northern America, the EU and Japan.
09 Dec 08
Originally posted by smw6869That's not the instrinsic cost. You could produce the required drugs for $100 annually, easily. The cost is that high merely because the US government freely allows pharmaceutal companies to exploit patients and form cartels.
Here's how cheap AIDS drugs are: I know someone on the "Cocktail". Price for one year....$20,000.00
Yes ,it's only Right that the "WEST" pays for this. Ha!!!!
GRANNY.
09 Dec 08
Originally posted by PinkFloydHa! Back Pedalling again are you? " Well said" is what you replied to my cranking head rant. Now you say you didn't agree with that. Which way is it LIAR? You'd make a good politician. You know how to spin lies after the fact. You even said words to the effect that 'see, we can agree on some things"
I "agreed" with you about the value of life (which IS, sfter all, the topic of the thread). I didn't agree with you about cranking heads because that is gibberish. You excel at babbling gibberish, and then being able to define your "words" when confronted. There are two possibilties: You are either unwilling to defend your words by defining them, or yo ...[text shortened]... ng. I find the whole "I'm-a-patriot-cuz-I-still-kiss-vietnam-vet's-asses" a bit trite.
So now you've changed your mind and disagree? I kiss Vietnam vets asses? In what way? Because i donate one weekend a month at the VA hospital cleaning their bed pans? ( many Iraqi vets also) Because i donate
to disabled vets organizations? Because i work with a local DAV office to help get Vets get their well deserved benefits. Because i drive to the Nat'l archives in College Park Maryland to search for documents to prove a vets right to disability? Is that kissing ass to you? You're a self loathing 60's wannabe with you're me , me , me, self righteous attitude. You make me sick. I kiss ass and you suck dic.( at least you said you could learn) That makes you so much better than me.
Looks like i finally got you to admit your utter hate and disdain for those vets. I knew it from the get go and you've just proven YOU HAVE NO HONOUR which makes you the worst kind of slug on the planet.
Craw on back to the vile dust from whence you sprung. Douche!
GRANNY.
09 Dec 08
Originally posted by KazetNagorraThe average drug costs about $800 million to produce. Drug companies are granted a 17 year patent on their method of manufacture -- 10 years of which is taken up in drug trials to prove their drug is safe and effective and during which time they don't earn a dime.
That's not the instrinsic cost. You could produce the required drugs for $100 annually, easily. The cost is that high merely because the US government freely allows pharmaceutal companies to exploit patients and form cartels.
This leaves them 7 years in which to recoup their investment and make a profit besides.
Cartels do not operate because each company sells its own patented medications. As soon as they go off-patent, profits drop 80-90% in the first year due to generic competition. Many "one hit wonder" companies go out of business or get bought out at that time.
As for exploting patients, that's a mispercpetion that arose because people have unaccountably formed this idea that medication they "need" is something they have a "right" to "at low cost", even though they paid nothing to discover or develop it.
10 Dec 08
Originally posted by spruce112358Clearly, when this amount of lives are at stake, the profits of the pharmaceutical companies are of lesser importance. This is why medical research is more efficiently conducted through government control.
The average drug costs about $800 million to produce. Drug companies are granted a 17 year patent on their method of manufacture -- 10 years of which is taken up in drug trials to prove their drug is safe and effective and during which time they don't earn a dime.
This leaves them 7 years in which to recoup their investment and make a profit besides. ...[text shortened]... e a "right" to "at low cost", even though they paid nothing to discover or develop it.
10 Dec 08
Originally posted by KazetNagorraIt's government control that is holding the industry back.
Clearly, when this amount of lives are at stake, the profits of the pharmaceutical companies are of lesser importance. This is why medical research is more efficiently conducted through government control.
It is government control that makes them so expensive.
10 Dec 08
Originally posted by KazetNagorraGovernments do a lot of things, but producing medications is not one of them. Take vaccines -- there are several that got into short supply because nobody could make any money producing them. If the government was efficient at producing drugs, they would have stepped in. They couldn't because they have no expertise in that area. They can only encourage companies to do so; but a free market offers encouragements that are far superior.
Clearly, when this amount of lives are at stake, the profits of the pharmaceutical companies are of lesser importance. This is why medical research is more efficiently conducted through government control.
It is not whether pharmaceutical profits are important -- it is that profit it was motivates people. Profit fuels research and attracts investment, but it also atttracts bright minds who go into medical research instead of law or finance.
Take away profit and the industry will look for new markets (if possible) or retrench and focus on margins, not new research. This is what happened in Europe: "The pharmaceutical industry, once one of the jewels in Europe's industrial crown, has been outsourcing research and development to the United States for two decades."
10 Dec 08
1 edit
Originally posted by spruce112358If you look at Nobel Prize laureates you will find that a majority of them have been awarded to people working at (partly) state-funded universities.
Governments do a lot of things, but producing medications is not one of them. Take vaccines -- there are several that got into short supply because nobody could make any money producing them. If the government was efficient at producing drugs, they would have stepped in. They couldn't because they have no expertise in that area. They can only encourage crown, has been outsourcing research and development to the United States for two decades."
Scientists don't require profits for their research, they are motivated primarily by prestige and just require adequate funding.