23 Nov 04
Originally posted by RBHILLI love how it's the Will of God now but the inevitable consequence of Free Will when a civilization turns evil.
The Will of God.
God is taking back America out of Satans control.
God's Grace rules over the power of sin.
About 1,300 people came to know the Lord at an L.A. Gospel Preaching this weekend.
23 Nov 04
Originally posted by KellyJayI think that while Pentecostals and other mystical/'charismatic' branches of xtianity would not want to identify themselves with 'Evangelicals,' the Evangelicals that are "on the rise" and were the targets of Karl Rove's election strategy include these groups.
I define myself as a Christian, beyond that we are talking about
flavors of the same family. There needs to be something about
this group of people that makes them different from say other
groups within Christianity like Pentecostals, Charismatic,
Fundamentalist, and on and on.
Kelly
I think of Evangelicals as generally having the following qualities:
1) A strong emphasis on salvation through "the blood of Jesus" as well as on "a personal relationship" with Christ.
2) A strict adherence to the infallibility of the Bible
3) Demonstrated focus on evangelism (hence the name); you will typically find this crowd recruiting with all manner of dramatic spectacles.
4) An ever present obsession with the "End Times"; an excellent device for scaring some more into the kingdom
5) Very conservative socially; typically anti-gay, anti-abortion, anti-MTV;
in moderate to extreme cases anti-UN;
Yeah, well these are not perfect but should give a rough idea. Basically, we are talking Baptists, CMA, Church of Christ, Assembly of God, Pentecostal, non-denominational charismatic, Four Square, Calvary Chapel, etc. To some degree, include Methodists and Lutherans but not so much. So if your church is basically like one of these, then you are likely to fit in the category Evangelical. Actions like stressing that one is 'just a Christian' or insisting that it's about "a personal relationship with Jesus, not religion or a denomination' are further support that the person is an Evangelical.
23 Nov 04
Originally posted by telerionI think your denominational list is inaccurate. First of all Southern Baptists
Basically, we are talking Baptists, CMA, Church of Christ, Assembly of God, Pentecostal, non-denominational charismatic, Four Square, Calvary Chapel, etc. To some degree, include Methodists and Lutherans but not so much. So if your church is basically like one of these, then you are likely to fit in the category Evangelical. Actions like stressing that o ...[text shortened]... esus, not religion or a denomination' are further support that the person is an Evangelical.
and American Baptists have very different theological perspectives in
America, not to mention different liturgical (or non-liturgical) practices.
Both Methodists and Lutherans (I am assuming ELCA) do not belong on
the list as a denomination, although independent churches may describe
themselves as 'evangelical' in the sense that we discussing. These two
have reasonably progressive council members, especially east of the
Mississippi (although not quite as progressive as the Episcopal Church).
Nemesio
23 Nov 04
Originally posted by ivanhoeCoincidentally our quality of education is declining. The ignorant sheep of this country are either unable or unwilling to apply a mere 6 ply of logic to Christianity and see that they have been deluding themselves.
As we take a look at the political situation in the United States, the so called Evangelicals, a certain branch of what is widely known as Christianity, seem to gain more and more ground.
In this thread I want to invite everybody to give reasons why this brand of Christianity is so much on the rise in American society. What are the material and/or non-material conditions that make such a rise possible ?
Anytime these so-called Christians are confronted with anything which shows their "religion" as the fallacy which it is, they stick their heads in the sand and use selective Bible quotes to drown out the truth.
Over the past 30 years I have been involved in numerous debates with Bible-thumpers and have observed that they are ruled by fear. Fear of the unknown, death, loss of control, or purposelessness.
So the most likely reason for the rise of evangelicals is IGNORANCE.
Try this one:
Who was "born on the 25th of December of a virgin??"
Answer: Mithra. circa 270 b.c.
And another:
On a wall of the Vatican in Rome there is an inscription which reads:
"unless you drink of my blood and eat of my flesh you will not be with me in the next world".
Who does it pertain to??
Answer: Mithra, the site of the Vatican was a Mithran temple.
Christianity has borrowed, or stolen much from other religions.
You have to be blind or just plain ignorant to not see a connection.
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
In Love there is Life
Angela
23 Nov 04
Originally posted by telerionOkay, if that is what you call an Evangelical. Personally, that fits
I think that while Pentecostals and other mystical/'charismatic' branches of xtianity would not want to identify themselves with 'Evangelicals,' the Evangelicals that are "on the rise" and were the targets of Karl Rove's election strategy include these groups.
I think of Evangelicals as generally having the following qualities:
1) A strong emp ...[text shortened]... esus, not religion or a denomination' are further support that the person is an Evangelical.
most Christians I know, myself included; however, I do differ on
some of the things you have said.
All Christians in my opinion must acquire salvation through "the blood
of Jesus" there is not any salvation outside of Christ. So I fit that one.
I also believe that with that salvation a personal relationship with God
begins, so I fit that requirement.
I would fall short on the infallibility of the Bible since I believe that
some translations are better than others, and I would only say
infallibility would lay at the originals, but we no longer have the
originals, so oh well. I do not meet that part of are you an
Evangelical.
My view on the end times is that it is close, but that it does not matter
too much in my opinion either. If you are not ready when you die what
does it matter how close to the end times we are?
The conservative socially, I'd say I know as many liberal Christians
as I do conservative; however, when it comes to homosexuality,
and abortions anyone who believes in sin and scripture I would say
would acknowledge those two things are sins. As far as MTV goes, I
do not watch it, so I would not be able to talk about it. I only listen to
Christian music for the most part and an occasional secular group now
and then. I do not believe all music that isn't Christian is wrong, or
evil, but it is simply what type of message do I want being played and
put into my life.
Kelly
23 Nov 04
Originally posted by ivanhoeSeems the US is the only Western country where Christanity is on the rise - other Western countries are moving to a post-Christian society. Any thoughts on this?
As we take a look at the political situation in the United States, the so called Evangelicals, a certain branch of what is widely known as Christianity, seem to gain more and more ground.
In this thread I want to invite everybody to give reasons why this brand of Christianity is so much on the rise in American society. What are the material and/or non-material conditions that make such a rise possible ?
Is the US closer in this to Islamic countries where fundamentalism is also taking hold than it is to European societies?
23 Nov 04
Originally posted by no1marauderI have to take some exception to this. I think it is a bit of a stretch to compare Christians to Nazis or Islamic Fundamentalists. I think the attempt is to say that as Nazis persecuted Jews, Christian persecute gays, or anyone else that doesn't conform to thier way of thinking. I tend to look at it from the other side of that coin. Why is Christianity bad? There are bad apples in every bunch, and religion has its share of bad apples in every forum...But what is the problem with "Love one another, for love is from God?" I have never told a single person that they were going to hell or that they are wrong. I think most people believe that gays (that seems to be the hot topic) should be given equal unions as married couples. But they are NOT marriages. Marriage is a religious institution first. Plus, Falwell of Pat Robertson are NOT political figures. You saw what happened to Pat Robertson when he ran for President. Didn't even get off the ground. Those that think Christianity is running things need to take a little inventory. If Falwell and Robertson created a third party and ran it, they would lose. 51% of this country are not gung-ho Jesus freaks. I think the idea that Christians are persecuting the rest of you is a bit of a stretch at best and paranoia at worst.
The Nazis had a lot of "political energy" in 1920's Germany and their political ideology: extreme nationalism, intolerance and glorification of war are all very similar to the American right-wing fundamentalists like Falwell, Robertson, etc. It's easy to convince people that God's on their side and all the trouble in the world is caused by th ...[text shortened]... is the other side of the coin from Islamic fundamentalism; they just read a different old book.
23 Nov 04
Originally posted by caissad4You must have a high opinion of your views on life to make
Coincidentally our quality of education is declining. The ignorant sheep of this country are either unable or unwilling to apply a mere 6 ply of logic to Christianity and see that they have been deluding themselves.
Anytime these so-called Christians are confronted with anything which shows their "religion" as the fallacy which it is, they stick their he ...[text shortened]... onnection.
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
In Love there is Life
Angela
such a statement.
Kelly
23 Nov 04
Originally posted by caissad4But if the fundies are, as you assert, ruled by fear, and are determined to stick their head in the sand regardless of the facts, then ignorance is surely not their problem, but rather motivated evasiveness.
Coincidentally our quality of education is declining. The ignorant sheep of this country are either unable or unwilling to apply a mere 6 ply of logic to Christianity and see that they have been deluding themselves.
Anytime these so-called Christians are confronted with anything which shows their "religion" as the fallacy which it is, they stick their he ...[text shortened]... onnection.
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
In Love there is Life
Angela
23 Nov 04
Originally posted by telerionEvangelism only pertains to going out and preaching the Word of JC to as many people you can. The one with the highest score gets the sweetest pad in Heaven. Kind of...
I think that while Pentecostals and other mystical/'charismatic' branches of xtianity would not want to identify themselves with 'Evangelicals,' the Evangelicals that are "on the rise" and were the targets of Karl Rove's election strategy include these groups.
I think of Evangelicals as generally having the following qualities:
1) A strong emp ...[text shortened]... esus, not religion or a denomination' are further support that the person is an Evangelical.
Pentecostals definitely fit this description.
23 Nov 04
Originally posted by darvlayYes, they do. Many Charismatics think of Evangelicals as part of three major categories in the Protestant church (THE church really since all Catholics are going to hell. 🙁 ): Traditionalists (e.g. Episcopalians, Anglicans, Presbyterians), Evangelicals (e.g. Baptist, CMA, Methodist, Lutheran), and Charismatics (e.g. Calvary, Assembly of God, Pentecostal).
Evangelism only pertains to going out and preaching the Word of JC to as many people you can. The one with the highest score gets the sweetest pad in Heaven. Kind of...
Pentecostals definitely fit this description.
The big difference, in their minds, between themselves (Charismatics) and the other two is that they are "baptised in the Holy Spirit." Now the other two categories certainly recognize the Holy Spirit, but they don't have the same understanding. For some Charismatics this means the others aren't really living for Christ. Ironically, for some xtians this means Charismatics practice witchcraft.
Despite, the self-imposed seperation. I think we secular-minded individuals can safely include Charismatics with Evangelicals. They have the same militant moral values, and are generally just as unwaveringly Republican as their Baptist cousins.