... Originally posted by StarValleyWyI sometimes wonder if news and history from the Western world penetrates very far into the Islamic nations. Does a rural farmer in Afghanistan know that people from an overwhelmingly non-Muslim civilization have walked on the Moon? [Okay, some of our own R.H.P. people don't seem to know this, but that's for another thread.] Do they know that non-Muslims have the scientific methodology to predict certain physical parameters (e.g. the magnetic moment of the electron) to something like a dozen significant figures? If this sort of news does penetrate the Muslim nations, does it ever occur to the Muslims there that maybe other ways of doing things and other ways of thinking are capable of huge accomplishments that the Islamic ways simply can't compete with?
Have any of you read the underpinnings of Islamofacism? That is one hell of an intellectual vaccuum...
[Spare me the comment that centuries ago Muslims led the world in certain branches of mathematics. They have long since fallen behind.]
Originally posted by StarValleyWyThe Iraqis tried demonstrating in Falluja on April 29, 2003 to allow their children to go to a school occupied by US troops. Thirteen were shot and killed by US troops and Dr. Ahmed Ghanim al-Ali, director of Fallujah's General Hospital, said his medical crews were shot at when they arrived on the scene to remove the injured.
We often hear this phase when discussing the 'state of the world' and how to win the 'minds of all people' using ideas and reason instead of war.
My question is:
How does this work when used with people who have never had an ...[text shortened]... Yoo Hoo! Over there! With the guns. Let's talk. Ok?' -- snicker.
Now of course the Iraqis are ´plopping down in a fire-fight´ just as you recommend. Must be heartening to know you and killers of American troops think the same on this.
Originally posted by Paul DiracLots of people around the world don't know these things.
I sometimes wonder if news and history from the Western world penetrates very far into the Islamic nations. Does a rural farmer in Afghanistan know that people from an overwhelmingly non-Muslim civilization have walked on the Moon? [Okay, some of our own R.H.P. people don't seem to know this, but that's for another thread.] Do they know that non-Muslims ...[text shortened]... o Muslims led the world in certain branches of mathematics. They have long since fallen behind.]
What sort of imaginary friend they believe they have doesn't matter. Its about ignorance and poverty.
Generally, within British society muslims achieve more than the general population. There are more muslim doctors, computer experts etc. They have a strong moral fibre, good work ethic and strong faith and family.
Having read a number of these threads I wonder if the American media is brain washing its subjects to suggest that Muslims are second class in some way.
"How does this work when used with people who have never had an idea in their lives, and will only stare at you in a confused manner if you COULD ask them 'what are you thinking'? " That statement smacks of ignorance to me.
SWY: Odd that you brought up Gandhi and Mandela. Take a look at them, they proved(to me) that the only way for a country to gain democracy is from within.
Anti-Apartheid movements did recieve external help(Soviets especially), but it was mainly through internal change that war was avoided and change occurred. This struggle, which cost a lot of lives was hard, but it meant that once the old government fell, there was a new government accepted by a vast majority who could take over, halting any power vacum that could have resulted in civil war.
On my way home from work every day I pass a tall police building, never really noticed it much, till a guy I was doing work with told me he was once held inside there for a few months, had a wire shoved up his urethra and was then shocked, sound "reasonable" to you?
Probably the reason I am so sceptical of the WOT(tm) is that for a good portion of my life I heard the exact same cr@p spouted at me in school, that all blacks wanted to do was to kill us all, hated freedom, commie lovers, etc etc. After 1994, when we did have a black government I realised that the vast majority were exactly like me, none of the stuff I had been told to believe happened.
I don't think that there is a myth about men of peace, take a look at Mandela and the ANC(current ruling party), after a few decades of non-violent means they decided that they would have to use violence, however the violence they used was aimed at combatants, and even when aimed at them, efforts were made to try limit it. Then look at Mandela, post-1991 after he was released, now I don't know about you, but if I spent 27 years of my life locked up I think I might be a tad bit peeved at the guys doing the locking, Mandela could have organised a mass-uprising, and would have won, yet he chose a different path, even to excuse people who had commited atrocities for Apartheid.
Originally posted by TinorangatiratangaJust picked up this part of your post.
Ghandi came to realise that their forms of violence would not work against such a ruthless regime and sought another way, he found this in the NZ example set by Te Whiti at Parihaka, the forerunner to peaceful protesting....the rest as they say is history😉
You're saying that Te Whiti invented the concept of peaceful, non-violent protest?
Originally posted by RedmikeNgä taukumekume - Pacifist of Parihaka –Te Whiti o Rongomai
Just picked up this part of your post.
You're saying that Te Whiti invented the concept of peaceful, non-violent protest?
Imagine a leader so inspiring he is able to encourage men with warrior hearts to stand up for their rights, while laying down their weapons.
Picture this same man convincing 2000 people to welcome battle-thirsty soldiers into their village, and even offer them food and drink.
Even more surprising is how this peaceful leader allows himself and his people to be arrested without showing the slightest shrug of resistance.
You may believe you are reading the story of famous pacifist Mahatma Gandhi, of India, or another of the world's great leaders.
But in fact, this is the tale of a man from Aotearoa/New Zealand.
Te Whiti o Rongomai III was the leader of Parihaka, a Maori village nestled in a lahar-lumpy landscape between Mount Taranaki and the Tasman Sea.
Even though Te Whiti died in 1907, his spirit of peace is still alive at the slowly reviving kainga (village) - and way beyond.
Parihaka historian Te Miringa Hohaia has studied the life and writings about the man of mana. "Te Whiti was one of those great leaders. We had Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther-King, Nelson Mandela and Te Whiti o Rongomai.
"Te Whiti was the forerunner of them all."
Yes his impact in the recent 'modern' annals of repulsing oppression was profound and influential to all that followed especially Ghandi.
Originally posted by TinorangatiratangaVery interesting, thanks.
Ngä taukumekume - Pacifist of Parihaka –Te Whiti o Rongomai
Imagine a leader so inspiring he is able to encourage men with warrior hearts to stand up for their rights, while laying down their weapons.
Picture this same man convincing 2000 people to welcome battle-thirsty soldiers into their village, and even offer them food ...[text shortened]... f repulsing oppression was profound and influential to all that followed especially Ghandi.