28 Nov 09
Originally posted by FMFWTF does RHP have to do with anything I said? Does RHP = all that happens in the real world? Do all 300,000 members regularly post in the Debate forum? But since you're insisting on a RHP name, shavixmir comes to mind.
What are you referring to? There are nearly 300,000 people at RHP and a few hundred who bother to post in Debates. I do not recall in 4 years anyone posting anything even resembling an "everything America does is evil mantra". However, there have been loads and loads of instances of people, engaging in the "legitimate criticism" you say you have no problem with, ...[text shortened]... se, in a roundabout way you are simply contributing to the cheap smear-and-dismiss tactic.
28 Nov 09
Originally posted by USArmyParatrooperThis is the forum where we are debating. You were addressing The Snapper, and other contributors to this thread and this forum. You insinuated that there is a problem with people hating the U.S. unreservedly. I can't see what on earth you're talking about? So you meant that The Snapper is OK but that someone somewhere who is not on this forum creates a big problem for you re: "illigitimate criticism"? What is the relevance of the "everything America does is evil mantra" to debating here at RHP?
WTF does RHP have to do with anything I said? Does RHP = all that happens in the real world? Do all 300,000 members regularly post in the Debate forum? But since you're insisting on a RHP name, shavixmir comes to mind.
28 Nov 09
Originally posted by FMFFirst of all I never said anyone "creates a big problem for me", so please don't add dramatics that were not in my statement.
This is the forum where we are debating. You were addressing The Snapper, and other contributors to this thread and this forum. You insinuated that there is a problem with people hating the U.S. unreservedly. I can't see what on earth you're talking about? So you meant that The Snapper is OK but that someone somewhere who is not on this forum creates a big probl ...[text shortened]... is the relevance of the "everything America does is evil mantra" to debating here at RHP?
Yes, some Europeans have an irrational anti-American attitude. I already posted an example of one here at RHP, but it really doesn't matter if one, three or ten exist on this particular website.
If you disagree with me, guess what. I. really. don't. care.
28 Nov 09
Originally posted by USArmyParatrooperHey snazzy debating. Smell-The-Glove punctuation, I notice.
If you disagree with me, guess what. I. really. don't. care.
What impact has the "everything U.S. does is evil" ideology had on this debate so far? What possible connection is there between it and The Snapper? What is the substance of this "irrational anti-American attitude" you detect in "some Europeans"? What leads you to choose the word "irrational"? How many Europeans are you talking about? What has been the impact of this allegedly "irrational attitude" on our debate about "Trials to be held in N.Y."? Your comment seems like a clumsy half-baked jingoistic smear. Reminds me of utherpendragon.
28 Nov 09
Originally posted by FMFIt was a conversation between myself and someone else, not you. It was simply a side note. It wasn't a point used to "debate" anything. I am actually in favor of putting the 9-11 suspects on trial. Yes, you really have my number. I was pointing out that *some* Europeans have an irrational belief system about the US in a clumsy attempt to make my case. For the love of God stop humping my leg about nothing.
Hey snazzy debating. Smell-The-Glove punctuation, I notice.
What impact has the "everything U.S. does is evil" ideology had on this debate so far? What possible connection is there between it and The Snapper? What is the substance of this "irrational anti-American attitude" you detect in "some Europeans"? What leads you to choose the word "irrational"? How ma ...[text shortened]... mment seems like a clumsy half-baked jingoistic smear. Reminds me of utherpendragon.
And since my comment was a "half-baked jingoistic smear", excellent. Then you should have absolutely no problem pointing out specifically who I smeared.
I'm waiting...
Who did I smear? ....
Well....?
Oops, sorry about that.
28 Nov 09
Originally posted by USArmyParatrooperMmmm. So it's both a clumsy attempt to make your case AND not a point used to "debate" anything. I see. This thread has endured zero impact from 'America haters' and yet you brought it up. At the same time this thread has endured significant impact from the usual headless chicken, scarcely rational, 'your either with us or your a communist' Haters of Non-America like utherpendragon, Sam The Sham, smw6869, zeeblebot, Sartor Resartus and if I recall correctly the discraceful scacchipazzo, who may have put his poisonous oar in, only to have the post removed. And yet it draws no comment from you. So there we have it.
It was a conversation between myself and someone else, not you. It was simply a side note. It wasn't a point used to "debate" anything. I am actually in favor of putting the 9-11 suspects on trial. Yes, you really have my number. I was pointing out that *some* Europeans have an irrational belief system about the US in a clumsy attempt to make my case.
28 Nov 09
Originally posted by FMFlol
Mmmm. So it's both a clumsy attempt to make your case AND not a point used to "debate" anything. I see. This thread has endured zero impact from 'America haters' and yet you brought it up. At the same time this thread has endured significant impact from the usual headless chicken, scarcely rational, 'your either with us or your a communist' Haters of Non-America ...[text shortened]... only to have the post removed. And yet it draws no comment from you. So there we have it.
The "clumsy attempt" comment was obviously sarcasm.
It is completely irrelevant if this particular thread had any impact from America haters. My comment was a side note to someone else and it had nothing to do with any point I was making related to the thread topic. It's hilarious watching you get all huffy over nothing.
As for the others you described, they draw no comment from me except for the part where I mention Americans who are "blind nationalists." So there we have it. Not only do get all spastic over nothing, you can't even follow the course of a conversation.
28 Nov 09
It is my contention that unquestioning jingoistic 'America loving' by Americans has done far more damage to America's real interests and to so many millions of people around the world than any amount of "irrational anti-American attitudes by some Europeans".
The former - "We're a Force For Good, so, when all is said and done, whatever we do is justifiable" - is the cause of untold instances of flagrant hypocrisy with real world impacts and injustice perpetrated on its victims - through murdering proxies and various callous manifestations of One Rule For You and Another Rule For Usism.
The latter - "Too many Europeans think everything U.S. does is evil" - is a completely marginal, insignificant phenomenon that has no tangible impact on any serious discussion of anything.
And yet the latter gets the eeriely similar, parrotted denunciation from Americans of all stripes. Whereas the former is scarcely commented on or admitted by Americans. Indeed, if America's critics raise the former, they are so often smeared as being examples of the latter.
28 Nov 09
Originally posted by USArmyParatrooperthen I suggest you use the personal message function.
It is completely irrelevant if this particular thread had any impact from America haters. My comment was a side note to someone else and it had nothing to do with any point I was making related to the thread topic.
As for what it means to those who read it in a debate on a public forum, your 'I accept the criticism I accept, but all the rest is caused by psychological flaws of the people who don't come from where I live' (my paraphrasing) is tedious simplistic jingoistic nonsense that sounds no different coming out of your keyboard than it does out of those of the "blind U.S.nationalists" you like to consider yourself different from.
28 Nov 09
Originally posted by FMFI suggest you go piss up a rope.
then I suggest you use the personal message function.
As for what it means to those who read it in a debate on a public forum, your[b] 'I accept the criticism I accept, but all the rest is caused by psychological flaws of the people who don't come from where I live' (my paraphrasing) is tedious simplistic jingoistic nonsense that sounds no different comin ...[text shortened]... out of those of the "blind U.S.nationalists" you like to consider yourself different from.[/b]
I'm pretty darn sure you're the only one who could have possibly interpreted it that way.
28 Nov 09
Originally posted by USArmyParatrooperLook. I called you on a shallow, facile, dogmatic point you made on a public forum. I could have ignored it but you are a steady sensible voice on these threads and I am used to - and expect - better from you. Don't get all bent out of shape.
I'm pretty darn sure you're the only one who could have possibly interpreted it that way.
You said: "Just an FYI, I have absolutely no problem with legitimate criticism - in fact I welcome it. Just as long as it doesn't follow the "everything America does is evil" mantra and all American's [sic] aren't being broad brushed. [...] Yes,some Europeans have an irrational anti-American attitude."
My paraphrase: "'I accept the criticism I accept, but all the rest is caused by psychological flaws of the people who don't come from where I live".
It's scarcely an 'interpretation'. It's a pretty spot on, albeit unflattering, extrapolation of what your intellectually lazy words actually mean and a demonstration, perhaps, of why the massed ranks of dittoheads use those words too.
28 Nov 09
Originally posted by FMFThey are not intellectually lazy at all. In fact, I stand by them. I have encountered some Europeans both, in person and online who exhibit irrational views of the US. Case in point; the RHP member who I pointed out earlier. I'm referring to people that try to make the case that everything the US has ever done was either bad or of ill intent. It is not saying that if I happen to disagree about a specific issue I'm labeling them as such.
Look. I called you on a shallow, facile, dogmatic point you made on a public forum. I could have ignored it but you are a steady sensible voice on these threads and I am used to - and expect - better from you. Don't get all bent out of shape.
You said: "Just an FYI, I have absolutely no problem with legitimate criticism - in fact I welcome it. Just as long as ...[text shortened]... monstration, perhaps, of why the massed ranks of dittoheads use those words too.
When you read my entire post in its context, I think that's pretty clear. If anyone else disagrees I'd love to hear it.
28 Nov 09
Originally posted by USArmyParatrooperAnd what possible impact does such out and out, politically illiterate, stupidity have on serious debate? Has this "you are always evil" faction affected U.S. policy ever? How could it possibly trump the role of the 'Nothing America Does Is Evil' ideology in getting the U.S. into those heart of darkness places that bring "legitimate criticism" down upon it?
I'm referring to people that try to make the case that everything the US has ever done was either bad or of ill intent.
Who are the real culprits when the U.S. is held in bad odour? People on the sidelines who always say it's evil anyway? Or people who say it's a force for good so its alleged hypocrisy and missteps are irrelevant?
And why is the 'everything the US has ever done was either bad or of ill intent' thing any more noteworthy in "some" Europeans, than in the "some" people in Asia or Africa or Oceania or South America who regurgitate similar facile views?
Talking about what "some" people somewhere else think is little more than a shallow distraction when it comes to the task of trying to analyze why the U.S. too often does bad things to so many people in serving its own interests. By the same reckoning, what "some" people somewhere else think has no impact on the good things the U.S. does, has done, and tries to do.
In other words, it has little or nothing to do with anything. So why bring it up?
28 Nov 09
Originally posted by FMFI'm not going to waste my time trying to explain it to you. It will just keep going in an endless cycle you going on your same old rant. I said it, I meant it, get over it. You're free to your opinion because that along with five bucks will buy me a sugar free, vanilla latte from Starbucks with extra foam.
And what possible impact does such out and out, politically illiterate, stupidity have on serious debate? Has this "you are always evil" faction affected U.S. policy ever? How could it possibly trump the role of the 'Nothing America Does Is Evil' ideology in getting the U.S. into those heart of darkness places that bring "legitimate criticism" down upon it?
...[text shortened]... other words, it has little or nothing to do with anything. So why bring it up?
28 Nov 09
Originally posted by USArmyParatrooperBut there's no need to explain it. I already understand it, clearly. I was just registering my disappointment that you're trading in the same meaningless cliches that dittoheads and apologists trade in. I thought you had better stuff.
I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain it to you.