20 Apr 09
Originally posted by FMFSwitzerland is not really a military state because it's an exception. It's been in a state of official neutrality for centuries. Israel is a military state. I didn't think there was any debate there.
What about Switzerland - where every former national military service person (theoretically everybody) must keep a gun in their home? Or what about Israel with its draft and everybody-is-a-reservist thing? Military states?
20 Apr 09
Originally posted by scherzoThe problem is that you have made a pig's ear of defining what you mean as a "military state". All you've offered is that in Turkey "...Military service is compulsory for all men over age 20." And now you're pfaffing about batting away comments about other countries that meet your criterion. Suddenly you are mumbling about "exceptions" and "neutrality". Get a grip. Define "A Military Democracy" and set up a debate rather than insisting that "there isn't any debate" at the top of page two of your own thread.
Switzerland is not really a military state because it's an exception. It's been in a state of official neutrality for centuries. Israel is a military state. I didn't think there was any debate there.
20 Apr 09
Originally posted by FMF1. A military state is a state where the politics or economics are heavily influenced by the state's military.
The problem is that you have made a pig's ear of defining what you mean as a "military state". All you've offered is that in Turkey "...Military service is compulsory for all men over age 20." And now you're pfaffing about batting away comments about other countries that meet your criterion. Suddenly you are mumbling about "exceptions" and "neutrality". Get a gr ...[text shortened]... sisting that "there isn't any debate" at the top of page two of your own thread.
2. I was referring to Israel when I said "no debate." If you had read the whole post instead of just those two words you would have known that.
20 Apr 09
Originally posted by scherzoSo there are dozens and dozens of "military states" around the world. Nothing new or especially interesting per se, and hardly what one might call a debate topic - yet. So is there something you want to say about Turkey? AThousandYoung has already asked politely. Now I am asking too. Is there something you want to get of your chest or some kind of discussion you want to start? Why not just come out and do it?
1. A military state is a state where the politics or economics are heavily influenced by the state's military.
20 Apr 09
Originally posted by FMFMore books have been written about Turkey's militarism than the militarism of other Muslim states. I felt people would be the most knowledgeable. If you would like to talk about militarism in the PFLP, be my guest. I know more personally about that, but most people don't.
So there are dozens and dozens of "military states" around the world. Nothing new or especially interesting per se, and hardly what one might call a debate topic - yet. So is there something you want to say about Turkey? AThousandYoung has already asked politely. Now I am asking too. Is there something you want to get of your chest or some kind of discussion you want to start? Why not just come out and do it?
20 Apr 09
Originally posted by scherzoSo we are supposed to be debating how much knowledge you have?
More books have been written about Turkey's militarism than the militarism of other Muslim states. I felt people would be the most knowledgeable. If you would like to talk about militarism in the PFLP, be my guest. I know more personally about that, but most people don't.
20 Apr 09
1 edit
Let's debate this position. I think this is a fair translation of scherzo's position.
1. A Military State is a state where the politics and/or economics are heavily influenced by the state's military.
2. Turkey is a Military State.
3. Therefore, in Turkey, the military heavily influences politics and/or economics.
4. Turkey claims to be a Republic.
5. A Republic is a type of Democracy.
6. Military states can't be Democracies.
7. Therefore, because in Turkey the military heavily influences politics and/or economics, the name Republic of Turkey is a misnomber.
20 Apr 09
1 edit
Originally posted by AThousandYoungMy view is that Turkey, like most other - if not all - countries, is a Corporatist state (as opposed to a "democracy" ) and that its political inner workings can only be properly understood through this prism. Turkey's military is simply one of several corporate entities within the Turkish body politic that is manoeuvering alongside competing and cooperating entities. The "lack" of democracy - assuming that that is the case - is a product of the way Corporatist mechanisms function, surely, rather than the military per se. "Curtailment of democracy" in Singapore, for example, is achieved without any significant intervention by its military, and yet this curtailment is implemented by corporate entities that are directly equivalent to the military.
Let's debate this position. I think this is a fair translation of scherzo's position.
1. A Military State is a state where the politics and/or economics are heavily influenced by the state's military.
2. Turkey is a Military State.
3. Therefore, in Turkey, the military heavily influences politics and/or economics.
4. Turkey claims to be a Republic.
5. A Republic is a type of Democracy.
6. Military states can't be Democracies.