30 Sep 08
Originally posted by PalynkaAgreed and rec'd. Let the banks clean up their own mess with the loans. Inject capital where it makes sense, but without the wholesale bailout.
If the idea is recapitalize the money market, as I think it should be, I don't see why there's the need to buy these toxic assets. There are better ways to do this, ways that have worked successfully in the past (such as in the Scandinavian banking crisis).
The alternative to this bail-out is not just sitting on our hands.
30 Sep 08
Originally posted by uzlessThere are other investments besides stocks in case you didn't realize that. Most are far less volatile than the market. BTW, the Dow regained over 60% of its loss yesterday. The sky really isn't falling, Chicken Little.
diversified where?
Show me a major stock market that didn't drop yesterday.
30 Sep 08
Originally posted by leisurelyslothYes, give the incompetents who have wrecked the system MORE money to play with. That'll fix everything!
Agreed and rec'd. Let the banks clean up their own mess with the loans. Inject capital where it makes sense, but without the wholesale bailout.
In Sweden, the government nationalized, ran and restructured the struggling banks and showed the corporate gods how to actually run a business properly. http://www.fdic.gov/bank/historical/managing/sym1-09.pdf
Speech of Arne Berggren
We could give that a go, but taking over one bank cost Sweden 3% of its GDP (which would equate to about $400 billion in the US). If the government really wants to loosen up credit markets, then perhaps it should establish an agency that directly loans to consumers who have been turned down in the market; undoubtedly that would cost a lot less than $400 or $700 or more billion.
30 Sep 08
I think the consumer is going to lose choice after this crisis.
Banks are buying each other up to ensure they have long stability. I believe this will defending your position by acquistion will spread to other market segments over the coming years. Ford could be bought by toyota for example.
Competition will suffer and the little guy must sell up to the bigger guy or fall flat on his face.
Ultimately the American Dream will be harder to achieve.
30 Sep 08
Originally posted by invigorateIt won't make much difference; virtually every major market in the US is ogliopolistic now and has been for many years.
I think the consumer is going to lose choice after this crisis.
Banks are buying each other up to ensure they have long stability. I believe this will defending your position by acquistion will spread to other market segments over the coming years. Ford could be bought by toyota for example.
Competition will suffer and the little guy must sell up to ...[text shortened]... igger guy or fall flat on his face.
Ultimately the American Dream will be harder to achieve.
01 Oct 08
1 edit
Originally posted by no1marauder700 billion is a random number for this bailout. The truth is nobody really knows how much debt is really out there.
It won't make much difference; virtually every major market in the US is ogliopolistic now and has been for many years.
2 weeks ago the CEO of Wachovia was on the Jim Cramer show and stated the maximum sub-prime morgage debt was 10 billion and the bank was in good shape, when in reality it was a 42 billion debt that pulled it under 2 weeks later.
If the CEO didn't know (or just told a bold faced lie about it), it still was understated.
I have a feeling Congress will be back for more real soon afterwards and we the taxpayers will be footing the bill for that too, fair or not.
All we are doing here is stopping the bleeding, but the underlying cause is still not being addressed.
BTW. Yesterdays market action was a reaction in the hopes that this revised bailout plan will pass in both houses. All of these gains will go back in the toilet if it doesn't pass again.
01 Oct 08
Originally posted by Scotty70(Shrug) So what if the market falls? You invest in stock, you're taking a risk.
700 billion is a random number for this bailout. The truth is nobody really knows how much debt is really out there.
2 weeks ago the CEO of Wachovia was on the Jim Cramer show and stated the maximum sub-prime morgage debt was 10 billion and the bank was in good shape, when in reality it was a 42 billion debt that pulled it under 2 weeks later.
If the ...[text shortened]... l pass in both houses. All of these gains will go back in the toilet if it doesn't pass again.
The "new" bill is even worse than the old one; it's chock full of unnecessary items that further benefit the wealthy (how many people have the types of accounts normally eligible for FDIC insurance with OVER $100,000?) and has virtually no restrictions on what the imbeciles who invested in worthless securities can do with this windfall. Those who think it's going to pump a ton of cash into the credit market and suddenly loosen up available credit to the average schmuck are deluded. The economy is still bad and these firms are going to have to take big balance sheet losses (unless the securities are brought at listed value which would be voluntary highway robbery). Under those circumstances, there isn't going to be the stimulus the pols are promising. But their will be, oh, a trillion dollar deficit next year; I wonder what that will do to the value of the dollar?
01 Oct 08
It was grrrreat!!! And when the House votes this bew piece of crap down, I'll say "I told ya so" again!
Note--how long are Obama, McCain, et al going to keep the lie going about "companies borrow money to meet their payrolls?" That's a big lie--and any company that has to do that SHOULD fold.
Note 2--the new bill "caps" the amount of money paid to executives. At what? Why a cap? Why not say "they don't get squat"?
01 Oct 08
Originally posted by invigorateBuyouts are an essential part of the market. There's a balance between consumer choice and overcapacity.
I think the consumer is going to lose choice after this crisis.
Banks are buying each other up to ensure they have long stability. I believe this will defending your position by acquistion will spread to other market segments over the coming years. Ford could be bought by toyota for example.
Competition will suffer and the little guy must sell up to ...[text shortened]... igger guy or fall flat on his face.
Ultimately the American Dream will be harder to achieve.
There is currently an overcapacity in banking and automobiles.
What we're seeing in banking is actually what will drive recovery. Banks like Indymac had to go.
Let the buyouts in automobiles begin!
01 Oct 08
Originally posted by PinkFloydPerhaps it deserves another thread, but whatever happened to saving money to cover future expenses? The people and business in the US used to save 8-10% of their income and actually use it to plan to buy things in the future. Now the savings rate is routinely under 1% (it's dipped into negative territory at times) and everything has to be funded by piling on debt. With such massive levels of debt and so little savings, the economy has been a ticking time bomb for years.
It was grrrreat!!! And when the House votes this bew piece of crap down, I'll say "I told ya so" again!
Note--how long are Obama, McCain, et al going to keep the lie going about "companies borrow money to meet their payrolls?" That's a big lie--and any company that has to do that SHOULD fold.
Note 2--the new bill "caps" the amount of money paid to executives. At what? Why a cap? Why not say "they don't get squat"?