31 Aug 11
Originally posted by whodeyDoes it trouble you I try to show the hypocrisy on the left?
Does it trouble you I try to show the hypocrisy on the left? What I can't stand are conservatives defending the GOP and leftists defending the Dems to the death when in reality they are one in the same. It is just What I can't stand are conservatives defending the GOP and leftists defending the Dems to the death when in reality they are one in the same. It is just demagoguery heaped upon demagogueryheaped upon demagoguery
You are hilarious. I can't remember a single time you've legitimately or accurately done so.
Why don't you ever show the hypocrisy on the right?
Also, do you really think "the left" is just one monolithic group all believing in the same things?
What I can't stand are conservatives defending the GOP and leftists defending the Dems to the death when in reality they are one in the same. It is just What I can't stand are conservatives defending the GOP and leftists defending the Dems to the death when in reality they are one in the same. It is just demagoguery heaped upon demagogueryheaped upon demagoguery
Oh yes.. you hate both sides yet you only criticize one side. I know how fair you are.
In a way I do agree with you - the Democrats and the Republicans both end up doing an idiotic dance and end up with the same old policies over and over.
I don't defend the Dems to the death - or even to the pain! I think they are spineless jellyfish who let the republicans walk all over them like the Washington Generals vs the Harlem Globetrotters.
01 Sep 11
Originally posted by USArmyParatrooperI don't need links. All you have to do is read your own stuff.
Who claims they want to equalize outcomes? Link?
This whole "productive" vs "unproductive" mantra from the right (IS) class warfare. It's saying "the rich guy is better than you." How the hell is an auto mechanic who fixes several cars per day unproductive? Or the cashier who handles the transactions for hundreds of customers?
[b]As for a g ...[text shortened]... 000 people making $50,000 per year over one guy making $50,000,000 per year any day.
"How the hell is an auto mechanic who fixes several cars per day unproductive? Or the cashier who handles the transactions for hundreds of customers? "
You have some crazy ideas of who conservatives think are unproductive. Any labor for pay is productive. Got it?
One becomes more productive by applying capital to the problem of work. Few people get rich by earning hourly wages. Their productivity is liniar.
Only by multiplying productivity by hiring, or by automating, can a person dramatically improve productivity.
Another means is invention.
It isn't saying the rich guy is better. He has been more productive. He probably not only earned more, but paid others many multiples of what the wage earner earned.
Now what billionaires do with their money, I don't know how you figure that's any of your business. Giving a tax break is simply not taking someone's money. What they do with that money is their business, whether it goes to a new gulfstream, or sits in a brokerage account, or under their pillow.
Until 1913, there wasn't a Constitutional income tax, and the same year saw us authorize the FED whose one job is inflating the money. Both ultimately are paid by the poor and middle class.
I would take the economic activity of 300 million free Americans to that of mostly serfs.
01 Sep 11
Originally posted by normbenignAnd when they spend it, they pay sales tax and it is taxed a third time! And then the business owner who just sold something has to pay taxes too! Fourth time! And then when he buys something - sales tax again! Oh noes!
If the wealth is inherited, it is likely that it has been taxed at least twice.
01 Sep 11
Originally posted by normbenignSo basically I call BS and ask you for a link, and you're outright declining to provide one. Well that settles that, thank you.
I don't need links. All you have to do is read your own stuff.
"How the hell is an auto mechanic who fixes several cars per day unproductive? Or the cashier who handles the transactions for hundreds of customers? "
You have some crazy ideas of who conservatives think are unproductive. Any labor for pay is productive. Got it?
One becomes mor ...[text shortened]... would take the economic activity of 300 million free Americans to that of mostly serfs.
Someone being wealthy does NOT de facto make them "productive." Most business owners do not make over $250K per year. Most people making over $250K per year are not business owners.
It's absurd to give a business owner credit for the productivity of his or her employees. That business owner needs those employees in order to have that business in the first place. And if that business didn't exist all of its sales who be routed to the next business down the street, increasing the need for more employees for that next business.
Few people get rich by earning hourly wages, but many people get rich by earning big salaries.
It's not my business what billionaires do with their money, but all US policies including tax policy is the business of every American. And a graduated tax system and a government that provides services and safety nets makes practical sense and works.
But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Name a country that doesn't have a graduated tax system, doesn't have social programs, doesn't have a safety net and has little or no government regulations that also has a high quality of life.
The fact that you can't proves that your ideas are purely pie in the sky and theoretical (unproven).
01 Sep 11
Originally posted by USArmyParatrooperWhen 50% of people pay no income tax it is too graduated and the general hostile attitude of this country towards business and wealthy people is the reason why Republicans still win elections.
So basically I call BS and ask you for a link, and you're outright declining to provide one. Well that settles that, thank you.
Someone being wealthy does NOT de facto make them "productive." Most business owners do not make over $250K per year. Most people making over $250K per year are not business owners.
It's absurd to give a business o ...[text shortened]... ou can't proves that your ideas are purely pie in the sky and theoretical (unproven).
01 Sep 11
Originally posted by quackquackNo, because Republicans still win elections there is a hostile attitude towards business and the wealthy.
When 50% of people pay no income tax it is too graduated and the general hostile attitude of this country towards business and wealthy people is the reason why Republicans still win elections.
01 Sep 11
1 edit
Originally posted by quackquackYes Yes.
When 50% of people pay no income tax it is too graduated and the general hostile attitude of this country towards business and wealthy people is the reason why Republicans still win elections.
Wages below X amount pay no income tax and wages above Y amount pay no payroll tax.
01 Sep 11
1 edit
Originally posted by quackquackThat of course depends on your income level. It's just deceptive when someone says, "47% pay no income taxes" because it implies they don't pay taxes at all.
Payroll tax and income tax are not even at close to the same rate.
What's more, lower and mid earners pay a much higher percent of their income on other taxes because they actually spend their money.
01 Sep 11
Originally posted by USArmyParatrooperAnother ridiculous argument. Wealthy people don't just sit on their money. The spend it, they invest, the put it in banks who lend it out to other people. It is just as much part of the economy and it is a self-serving lie of those who favor redistribution who say over and over again that people money in the hands of poor people stimulates the economy.
That of course depends on your income level. It's just deceptive when someone says, "47% pay no income taxes" because it implies they don't pay taxes at all.
What's more, lower and mid earners pay a much higher percent of their income on other taxes because they actually spend their money.
Finally percentage are ridiculous -- wealthy people pay far more taxes in total dollars. No one goes to a sandwish shop and is told that it costs 10% of your earnings for lunch. There is a price for a service. It is time government bills people the same way instead of spending 31% more under Obama and saying that the group which pays the most should pay even more.
01 Sep 11
Originally posted by quackquackAre you suggesting taxation should be a flat amount?
Another ridiculous argument. Wealthy people don't just sit on their money. The spend it, they invest, the put it in banks who lend it out to other people. It is just as much part of the economy and it is a self-serving lie of those who favor redistribution who say over and over again that people money in the hands of poor people stimulates the econo ...[text shortened]... ending 31% more under Obama and saying that the group which pays the most should pay even more.
01 Sep 11
Originally posted by KazetNagorraI certainly would be for a flat tax.
Are you suggesting taxation should be a flat amount?
I also think it is time that If we keep making it more difficult for those who pay lots of taxes, they won't be able to have profitable ventures and tax revenue will suffer. It seems that many people on the site simply want to punish those who contribute the most. Fortunately, at least in my opinion, Americans as whole do not like the class war fare type arguments that many liberals are making and as such this country will elect a much more balanced economic approach.
01 Sep 11
Originally posted by quackquackBut in a flat tax system richer people pay way more taxes than poor people, and you just called this "ridiculous".
I certainly would be for a flat tax.
I also think it is time that If we keep making it more difficult for those who pay lots of taxes, they won't be able to have profitable ventures and tax revenue will suffer. It seems that many people on the site simply want to punish those who contribute the most. Fortunately, at least in my opinion, Americans as ...[text shortened]... liberals are making and as such this country will elect a much more balanced economic approach.