Debates
27 Sep 13
30 Sep 13
Originally posted by normbenignSeeking meaning is not necessarily about "gaining pleasure"; some people have found meaning in the ascetic. But you are using the possibility of procreation as a way of evading the issue. The question is and surely must be whether the individual life has or can have any meaning. If not, then procreation is merely the futile perpetuation of meaningless lives. If one adds zero to zero a thousand times, the sum total is still zero. And if mortality negates meaning, then the mortality of the species will do so in the long run.
I think that your notion is self adulation. People stroke themselves by concocting meaningful lives, which is really mental masturbation.
Whatever an individual chooses is just fine, and simple living and breeding may be more important, than contemplating one's navel. There are obviously tremendously different ways of using life, and each gains pleasu ...[text shortened]... survival. That comparison can be made for each of many higher activities, with the same result.
So while, indeed, "only procreation is required for continued survival", you have yet to show that survival is itself a desirable aim.
30 Sep 13
Originally posted by Teinosuke"But you are using the possibility of procreation as a way of evading the issue. The question is and surely must be whether the individual life has or can have any meaning."
Seeking meaning is not necessarily about "gaining pleasure"; some people have found meaning in the ascetic. " If not, then procreation is merely the futile perpetuation of meaningless lives. If one adds zero to zero a thousand times, the sum total is still zero. And if mortality negates meaning, then the mortality of the species will do so in the long run. ...[text shortened]... required for continued survival", you have yet to show that survival is itself a desirable aim.
I thought I was quite clear on the wide range of useful and productive things people can do with life.
"So while, indeed, "only procreation is required for continued survival", you have yet to show that survival is itself a desirable aim."
That is to deny the obvious. The accumulation of human accomplishment is gigantic, all without a lot of direction. Every life doesn't have to be heroic, but every life has that potential.
30 Sep 13
Originally posted by Great King RatNo, there is a point, or meaning, if you will.
There is no point of life whatsoever. We will all die, our genetic offspring will die, all life on earth will die, earth itself will disappear, all life in the universe will die and the universe itself will cease to exist.
Everything you've ever done and ever will do will amount to exactly nothing, zilch, nada. Unless someone can find a secret door ...[text shortened]... er made in your life, it would't have made a heap of difference. You won't be remembered anyway.
I found the meaning of life again the other day (for about the 4th or 5th time)
Originally posted by normbenignOh, I see, so you don't think it those "useful and productive" things are "self adulation" or "mental masturbation" any more? What an extraordinary volte-face.
I thought I was quite clear on the wide range of useful and productive things people can do with life. The accumulation of human accomplishment is gigantic, all without a lot of direction. Every life doesn't have to be heroic, but every life has that potential.
01 Oct 13
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Originally posted by TeinosukePerhaps I'm not making my point clear. Useful and productive things are byproducts of living. I only meant to indicate that no matter how great they might be, they could never reach the point of primacy.
Oh, I see, so you don't think it those "useful and productive" things are "self adulation" or "mental masturbation" any more? What an extraordinary volte-face.
Survival enables the doing of great and wonderful things. Procreation enables the next generation to continue.
02 Oct 13
Originally posted by Great King Rat"It is hard to have patience with people who say 'There is no death' or "Death doesn't matter."
There is no point of life whatsoever. We will all die, our genetic offspring will die, all life on earth will die, earth itself will disappear, all life in the universe will die and the universe itself will cease to exist.
Everything you've ever done and ever will do will amount to exactly nothing, zilch, nada. Unless someone can find a secret door ...[text shortened]... er made in your life, it would't have made a heap of difference. You won't be remembered anyway.
There is death. And whatever is matters. And whatever happens has consequences,
and it and they are irrevocable and irreversible. You might as well say that birth doesn't matter."
(C. S. Lewis)
02 Oct 13
Originally posted by twhiteheadSmall sidenote: I've made a mistake by mixing up "meaning" and... let's call it "effect". The effect your existence has on the world will get less and less over time.
Why should meaning I assign become diluted with time? If I assign a given meaning to a given action that meaning remains until I choose otherwise. If I die, then the meaning no longer exists as it was only ever meaning to me, but that seems like a trivial observation.
You seem to both recognise that meaning requires an 'assignor' whilst still treating it ...[text shortened]... ome more universal meaning hence your claims of dilution with time and references to permanence.
I agree with you that if you -Twhitehead- consider your life meaningful if you've raised your children well or if you've collected all the stamps in the world, than than meaning won't disappear or get less.
However, that - in my opinion - is not what the OP was after. He did not ask "What is your point of life", but "What's the point of life". Later he said Life has meaning...we are meant to serve the greater good of mankind. It indeed seemed to me he was looking for a "bigger" meaning of life than just whatever any random person might consider important in life.
I agree mostly with normbenign. Life all seems to be about endlessly copying the DNA-molecule. The fact that some individuals don't copy their DNA molecule is not important because there are more than enough backups available.
However, no matter how many times the DNA-molecule manages to copy itself, there will come a time when all it's copies will perish. Seems rather pointless to me.
02 Oct 13
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyWhat's the point of life, GB?
"It is hard to have patience with people who say 'There is no death' or "Death doesn't matter."
There is death. And whatever is matters. And whatever happens has consequences,
and it and they are irrevocable and irreversible. You might as well say that birth doesn't matter."
(C. S. Lewis)
02 Oct 13
Originally posted by Great King RatIn his book, Mere Christianity, Lewis writes…. "Consequently atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should have never found out it has no meaning: just as, if there was no light in the universe and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never know it was dark. Dark would be a word without meaning" (pg 39)
What's the point of life, GB?
Your purpose in life as well as mine is to fulfill our physical, emotional, intellectual and spiritual potential. The human body and mind are intricately and effectively designed. Human Life on Planet Earth is Chapter One, "Prelude to The Main Show".
