@zahlanzi saidGenerally I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, but I'm calling BS on this one Zahlooney. Monopoly is 95% luck when everyone starts out even, it's not a serious game, anyone bragging up their monopoly skills is just trolling, having a laugh, it's banter. When the rules are so slanted it's not possible to lose I simply don't believe anyone is going to claim superior skills or tactics or that something can be read by the way they land their piece on the board. I'm more surprised they got anyone to even play it, how boring.
why is everyone so hung up on the actual monopoly rules used.
the important premise was that one player had an unfair advantage (specifically they get double the dice rolls and double the pass go sum) and it was decided which that player is completely by chance and the result of the experiment was that a lot of these lucky players failed to acknowledge just how much chance (outside factors) played into their success.
You saw something and tried very hard to mold it into something it's not.
We had a laugh, don't thrash a dead horse.
If you're looking for a more realistic 'game' try the Stanford Prison Experiment.
11 Apr 23
@zahlanzi saidI am guessing you would be one of the people praising the double dicer's hard work.
"Is the take away from this that no one in the US works any harder than anyone else?"
I am guessing you would be one of the people praising the double dicer's hard work.
No, the take away from this is not that hard work doesn't equal success. Sometimes it helps. Sometimes it's not even an issue.
The point of this experiment was to see if there are people who would st ...[text shortened]... d bastards who think themselves geniuses, uber mensch bending the universe through sheer will power.
That's why actual conversations never seem to work on the Internet. Total strawman and red-herring. Why, exactly, would you "guess" that about me?
So let's say EVERYONE in the US understands that luck plays a role in success and failure. All 330 million of us. I initially asked "what is the takeaway?". Let me try to improve my wording. "What new government law should we create based on this understanding?"
One thing I understand is that luck plays a role in success/failure. Another thing I understand is that the worst possible operating system you can install in your mind to approach life with is the belief that success/failure mostly depends on luck. Even if it is more true than we realize, you're going to get your worst outcome as an individual if you sit around an wait for luck while neglecting the "work" you can do.
11 Apr 23
@wajoma saidGreat point. Even as a child I understood that Monopoly was almost all luck. We all played with the exact same strategy, but we still depended almost entirely on good rolls of the dice.
Generally I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, but I'm calling BS on this one Zahlooney. Monopoly is 95% luck when everyone starts out even, it's not a serious game, anyone bragging up their monopoly skills is just trolling, having a laugh, it's banter. When the rules are so slanted it's not possible to lose I simply don't believe anyone is going to claim superior ...[text shortened]... h a dead horse.
If you're looking for a more realistic 'game' try the Stanford Prison Experiment.
I'd like to see this study reviewed or repeated by someone willing to challenge and question the ostensible results.
In games of luck, trash talk is often more fun because the trash talk itself becomes its own art form when you know you're opponent isn't actually inferior than you in their skill.
Kind of reminds me of March Madness office pools. The trash talk at the beginning of the tournament is incredibly fun as we all understand that we're going to live or die mostly by luck.
In other games, such as chess, I almost totally abstain from trash talk. Mostly among my friends, it would just be mean of me and not fun for anyone. If I play a kid or teen in chess, I generally offer encouragement instead of trash talk.
@techsouth saidWe should revise the laws that exaggerate the influence of luck on peoples success e.g. low taxes on the wealthy, government protection of property, government enforced passive incomes, imprisoning enormous numbers of low income people etc
I am guessing you would be one of the people praising the double dicer's hard work.
That's why actual conversations never seem to work on the Internet. Total strawman and red-herring. Why, exactly, would you "guess" that about me?
So let's say EVERYONE in the US understands that luck plays a role in success and failure. All 330 million of us. I initially ...[text shortened]... outcome as an individual if you sit around an wait for luck while neglecting the "work" you can do.
11 Apr 23
@athousandyoung saidAre you serious?
We should revise the laws that exaggerate the influence of luck on peoples success e.g. low taxes on the wealthy, government protection of property, government enforced passive incomes, imprisoning enormous numbers of low income people etc
You want to just make sure to reduce any luck?
No government protection of property?
You're saying that because luck is a factor in success, let's just take money from people so that neither hard work nor luck will pay off.
I will pray every day that I never have to live in the "utopia" that you envision, because it will really suck.
11 Apr 23
1 edit
@techsouth saidThe USA in times past was exactly as I describe and was highly successful. The Founding Fathers protected their property with their own weapons. No police, no standing army - in fact they opposed a standing army because they didn’t want government men with guns running the show. Funny how nowadays conservatives love the police, military and idle rich. Taxes in the 50s were far higher on the wealthy than now. The King of England was the ultimate absentee landlord collecting government enforced passive income.
Are you serious?
You want to just make sure to reduce any luck?
No government protection of property?
You're saying that because luck is a factor in success, let's just take money from people so that neither hard work nor luck will pay off.
I will pray every day that I never have to live in the "utopia" that you envision, because it will really suck.
11 Apr 23
https://origins.osu.edu/history-news/death-taxes-and-american-founders?language_content_entity=en
Thomas Jefferson suggested that all property be redistributed every fifty years, because "the earth belongs in usufruct to the living." Madison gently pointed out the plan's impracticality. Benjamin Franklin unsuccessfully pushed for the first Pennsylvania constitution to declare concentrated wealth "a danger to the happiness of mankind."
11 Apr 23
@techsouth saidA utopia I might envision would probably suck for the millionaires and billionaires relative to their current elevated status, yes. But they treat the rest of us with contempt and I don’t care about them.
Are you serious?
You want to just make sure to reduce any luck?
No government protection of property?
You're saying that because luck is a factor in success, let's just take money from people so that neither hard work nor luck will pay off.
I will pray every day that I never have to live in the "utopia" that you envision, because it will really suck.
11 Apr 23
@techsouth said"That's why actual conversations never seem to work on the Internet. Total strawman and red-herring. Why, exactly, would you "guess" that about me? "
I am guessing you would be one of the people praising the double dicer's hard work.
That's why actual conversations never seem to work on the Internet. Total strawman and red-herring. Why, exactly, would you "guess" that about me?
So let's say EVERYONE in the US understands that luck plays a role in success and failure. All 330 million of us. I initially ...[text shortened]... outcome as an individual if you sit around an wait for luck while neglecting the "work" you can do.
Because your first instinct after i presented an experiment where luck was obvious (and the ones benefitting from it still oblivious to it) was to say "yeah but in real life some people just work harder than others"
"Another thing I understand is that the worst possible operating system you can install in your mind to approach life with is the belief that success/failure mostly depends on luck. "
Who is strawmaning now.
"Even if it is more true than we realize, you're going to get your worst outcome as an individual if you sit around an wait for luck while neglecting the "work" you can do."
Reading diagonally someone's words might make you miss some important bits. Or reading but not comprehending. At no point did i say that to succeed one needs to "sit around and wait for luck. "
The point was that those that succeed owe, in addition to their work and/or talent, a great deal to outside circumstances, not of their own making. Circumstances like who you know, where you grew up, how much money did your daddy left you. Nobody is a closed system, we live in a society.
11 Apr 23
@zahlanzi saidA lot of those circumstances are artificially created or enhanced by government laws and government employees.
"That's why actual conversations never seem to work on the Internet. Total strawman and red-herring. Why, exactly, would you "guess" that about me? "
Because your first instinct after i presented an experiment where luck was obvious (and the ones benefitting from it still oblivious to it) was to say "yeah but in real life some people just work harder than others"
"Ano ...[text shortened]... ou grew up, how much money did your daddy left you. Nobody is a closed system, we live in a society.
11 Apr 23
@techsouth said"No government protection of property? "
Are you serious?
You want to just make sure to reduce any luck?
No government protection of property?
You're saying that because luck is a factor in success, let's just take money from people so that neither hard work nor luck will pay off.
I will pray every day that I never have to live in the "utopia" that you envision, because it will really suck.
Is that what he really said? Or the strawman you created?
"You're saying that because luck is a factor in success, let's just take money from people so that neither hard work nor luck will pay off."
Wow. Careful with these leaps of logic, you might fall and break a leg.
Higher taxes on the highest earners doesn't mean "neither hard work or luck will pay off". It means that if life is a marathon, the billionaires get a volvo with the tires deflated a bit instead of a spaceship and the poor who run it on foot get slightly better shoes.
11 Apr 23
@athousandyoung saidWhich leads us to the "what laws would you make" question he asked that i didn't bother to answer because there were other bad points to address
A lot of those circumstances are artificially created or enhanced by government laws and government employees.
12 Apr 23
@zahlanzi saidThey don't just want their wealth, they want poor people's wealth too.
https://www.marketplace.org/2021/01/19/why-rich-people-tend-think-they-deserve-their-money/
A very funny experiment (and somewhat worrisome too).
Someone made an experiment where they paired random people for a game of monopoly (barf). The twist was that one of them, decided through a coin flip at the start of the game, was allowed to roll two dice instead of one and ...[text shortened]... nother link for most to ignore:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IP2EKTCngiM&ab_channel=SomeMoreNews
Amazon paid $0 in U.S. federal income tax on more than $11 billion in profits before taxes in 2018 and received a $129 million tax rebate from the federal government due to the Republican tax cuts of 2017, carryforward losses from years when the company was not profitable, tax credits for massive investments in R&D and stock-based employee compensation.
Not only do banks get to gamble with other people's money at no risk when they lose, but corporations get compensated for their losses too. Capitalists have bribed to get tax laws passed to benefit themselves. That is how I know I am living in a plutocracy. This is class warfare at it's worst. Fascism, really.
12 Apr 23
2 edits
@zahlanzi saidHaha I feel your pain
why is everyone so hung up on the actual monopoly rules used.
the important premise was that one player had an unfair advantage (specifically they get double the dice rolls and double the pass go sum) and it was decided which that player is completely by chance and the result of the experiment was that a lot of these lucky players failed to acknowledge just how much chance (outside factors) played into their success.
In Some societies the rich and powerful convince themselves that they sleep on diamond encrusted bed frames whilst others starve and have to sell their children because of karma, for others it’s gods will, but in societies where gods have been relegated to Sunday hobbies we tend to use euphemisms like ‘hard word’ and ‘idleness’ to explain the unearned advantages and disadvantages of birth.