Youth Culture and Teenage Deaths in London

The post that was quoted here has been removed

I am sorry to say I don't agree with you.
As an example National Service is compulsory in Denmark,Germany and Greece their Assault figures are 1.8, 1.4 and 0.3 per thounsand population. In the UK it's 7.45 Assaults per thousand.

In addition 42% of prisoners in Greece and 30% in Germany are non-nationals.

Originally posted by Dolphin55
I am sorry to say I don't agree with you.
As an example National Service is compulsory in Denmark,Germany and Greece their Assault figures are 1.8, 1.4 and 0.3 per thounsand population. In the UK it's 7.45 Assaults per thousand.

In addition 42% of prisoners in Greece and 30% in Germany are non-nationals.

A correlation does not correspond to a causal relationship. I don't know about Greece, but in both Germany and Denmark there is a decent benefits system where the amount of money the unemployed are expected to live off is liveable. So maybe that's the solution instead, give poor people more money and then they won't be so desperate.

Originally posted by Dolphin55
Well leaving the radicals to one side, it seems that parenting is an issue. There is probably some truth in that I think it's the grandparents, they were bought up in the free and easy sixties and the mayhem seventies.
The one solution I have is to bring back National Service which was phased out in the fifties. All young people from the age of eighteen ...[text shortened]... at are missing in the family homes. It would also give a good grounding for the future parents.

is that it? i was hoping you were going to reveal a new approach.
that old national service concept, i suppose you would say it keeps them off the street, makes a man of them and all that. even then its just a "band aid" rather that a cure. the question is how do you engender some respect in those kids, for themselves and others. by the time they are eligible for national service, its probably too late.

Originally posted by Dolphin55
As you may be aware, we in London (UK) have experienced a number of teenage deaths in London this year. There are number of reasons for this, and I would like to hear your views.
To kick off, I beleive the following have some bearing on the problems we are having.
1. Drugs.
2. Gang Culture.
3. Immigration.
4. Lack of discipline in schools.
5. Teenag ...[text shortened]... solution that may resolve a number of the above but I would like to hear your views.

Thanks.

I can't believe anyone who has thought seriously about this can miss off parental influence (or lack of) & also the high rate of single parent families from the list of contributing factors in the UK to the yob culture amongst some of the "yoof".

Originally posted by Dolphin55
Well leaving the radicals to one side, it seems that parenting is an issue. There is probably some truth in that I think it's the grandparents, they were bought up in the free and easy sixties and the mayhem seventies.
The one solution I have is to bring back National Service which was phased out in the fifties. All young people from the age of eighteen ...[text shortened]... at are missing in the family homes. It would also give a good grounding for the future parents.

I'm also a big fan of National Service.

People have a gross misconception of National Service equals Military Service. This is incorrect.

When I was in Bolivia, I met a group of German youngsters, whose national service entailed helping to build houses for the poor in a Bolivian village. This can only be a positive thing. They would have learned so much. School education is great and all, but the fact of the matter is that life skills (positive at least) aren't really learned in school.

I also feel that national service which could entail Military service would be a great thing for Irish youth, considering the types of humanitarian missions that the Irish military get involved in. I would be of the opposite opinion if my country partook in illegal invasions, and wholesale slaughter of innocents.

Our youth have no concept of money, respect, discipline, ownership, etc. National service would definitely instill most, if not all of these concepts.

Another point that needs to be made is that there is no money being invested in keeping youth entertained. They are non-profit making, so are forgotten by our economy, economy, economy driven societies and governments. Kids are viewed more as pests than the future of our societies and this also needs to be changed. Think about it. What is there to do for youth in your area? When I say that, I mean for all youths, not just those who can afford the cinema, ice-cream parlours etc.

Obviously parenting is another key issue, and very simply addressed. Parents need classes in which they are shown that communicating with your child (rather than shouting and intimidating them) will produce massive improvements in their children's behaviour.

We also need to stop feeding our children addictive, behaviour changing chemicals from even before they are born. How many women nowadays sedate themselves (and hence their children) during birth? Have you ever looked at the contents of a packet of sweets, artificial this, artificial that, sugar, E's. In my view, this is poisoning our children. You may agree or disagree, but feeding our children such concoctions of chemicals is the equivalent of feeding them crack cocaine laced with cyanide. Food is a medicine. Fact!

The opiate of the masses, television, is another HUGE problem, in my personal opinion. When the parent is more interested in telling the child to be quite during their favourite programs than interacting with the child, rebellion is going to ensue. On the flip side, when children are watching hours of content devised to increase sales through promoting the "whinge factor", a poor parent-child relationship will ensue, again resulting in poor child behaviour.

And finally, video games *may* give youth the delusion of invincibility and give them false ideas about the worth of life. If I, as a youth, kill 1000 people in a game, with no bad feelings, then my life learning is being affected. Life is all about learning, especially in youth. When most learning is through tv (Jackass)/movies(Rambo)/games(Need for Speed), then problems will ensure. As an avid gamer myself, I know they don't create problems across the board. My 10 year old cousin said towards the end of X-men 3, "this isn't real though, is it?". I was absolutely flabbergasted that she would even for a moment think that a comic book movie was real. Computer games should be true to life, in more than just graphics. If you have a driving game, and you crash into somebody while speeding, that should be it, attend the funeral, and be led off to prison for a while to think about it, instead of the current "car rights itself, and off you tear" gaming of today. This point is a little tongue in cheek, but valid none-the-less, I think.

D

Originally posted by Ragnorak
I'm also a big fan of National Service.

People have a gross misconception of National Service equals Military Service. This is incorrect.

When I was in Bolivia, I met a group of German youngsters, whose national service entailed helping to build houses for the poor in a Bolivian village. This can only be a positive thing. They would have learned so ...[text shortened]... day. This point is a little tongue in cheek, but valid none-the-less, I think.

D

Best post i've read here in a long time.

Well said .. rec if I could.

The post that was quoted here has been removed

I was not stating that as a solution, just one that you could come to using the same logic that Dolphin55 used to suggest national service that I imagined that he would disagree with.

It's a culture thing is it? This is an answer that people like to come up with because it sounds plausible and can't easily be argued with. The reason it's difficult to argue with is that there is no substance to it. You may as well say it's something in the water - maybe the guy out of Dr Strangelove was right after all and fluorine in the water is causing the trouble. Do Germany, Greece, and Denmark have fluorinated water?

Basically the problem is that everyone is scared of everyone else. For no good reason. This is something the media perpetuates to sell newspapers. I live in Hackney, about 3 weeks ago I left my house to discover that I was inside a police cordon because someone was shot on Homerton High Street, and the killers had run down my street after they'd shot him. This made the national news. I on the other hand have never been shot dead and that hasn't been reported once in any of the national newspapers. All of the recent shootings in Hackney have either been drug related.

The truth is that there really isn't anything new going on, it was just the same in the 80's when I was a kid, and it was probably also the case when Dolphin55 was a kid, and it was also like this when Rome rased Carthage, and Troy fell and so on. I refuse to believe that there is any more of a culture of violence now than there has ever been.

Originally posted by Ragnorak
When I was in Bolivia, I met a group of German youngsters, whose national service entailed helping to build houses for the poor in a Bolivian village. This can only be a positive thing.

This is a very good post. I would wreck it if I could. However, referring to the denial of individual autonomy by the state, even for the noblest reasons, as "only a positive thing" seems to be speaking a bit too soon.

Originally posted by Ragnorak
I'm also a big fan of National Service.

People have a gross misconception of National Service equals Military Service. This is incorrect.

When I was in Bolivia, I met a group of German youngsters, whose national service entailed helping to build houses for the poor in a Bolivian village. This can only be a positive thing. They would have learned so ...[text shortened]... day. This point is a little tongue in cheek, but valid none-the-less, I think.

D

I agree with that; good diet has been shown to improve behaviour. When we spend less money on school meals than they spend on prison food, you do have to wonder. I don't care what the media are saying, we probably have the worst attitude towards food in europe. Like TV, this isn't just a problem for children, it's damaging for everyone.
Not sure about parenting classes, are they voluntary or mandatory? I wouldn't agree with mandatory classes, too impractical, and voluntary classes would not necessarily be taken up by the parents who need them the most.
Video games have the chicken and egg problem of do violent children have a tendency to play video games or do the video games incite violent behaviour? Then again YouTube

Originally posted by mrstabby
I agree with that; good diet has been shown to improve behaviour. When we spend less money on school meals than they spend on prison food, you do have to wonder. I don't care what the media are saying, we probably have the worst attitude towards food in europe. Like TV, this isn't just a problem for children, it's damaging for everyone.
Not sure about p ...[text shortened]... video games incite violent behaviour? Then again http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBVmfIUR1DA

In my high school during the feel-good early 70s, I took an elective course called Contemporary Adult Living which included reading want ads, actually going to apartments from adverts to see them, budgeting, and a host of other facets of adult life. Courses like that should be mandatory and should include checkbooks (writing, balancing, laws, etc.) and parenting. Of course it won't "stick" with everyone, but the information is there. Otherwise, people learn parenting primarily from their parents -- which is good in some cases and dreadful in others. High school would be an excellent time for class discussions on parenting issues.

Originally posted by Ragnorak
I'm also a big fan of National Service.

People have a gross misconception of National Service equals Military Service. This is incorrect.

When I was in Bolivia, I met a group of German youngsters, whose national service entailed helping to build houses for the poor in a Bolivian village. This can only be a positive thing. They would have learned so ...[text shortened]... day. This point is a little tongue in cheek, but valid none-the-less, I think.

D

I would rec that if I could....just a minute, I can!

My last of my 10 recs for the past 30 days now submitted. 😉

Originally posted by DeepThought

The truth is that there really isn't anything new going on, it was just the same in the 80's when I was a kid, and it was probably also the case when Dolphin55 was a kid, and it was also like this when Rome rased Carthage, and Troy fell and so on. I refuse to believe that there is any more of a culture of violence now than there has ever been.

No - here I disagree with you, Deep Thought.
All the statistics suggest that there is clearly an increase in gun-related crime in the UK over the last 25 years or so.

For instance:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3112818.stm#
& open the box "At a glance - gun crime statistics"
This gives the figures from 1982-2003

I'm sure the media does hype it up, feeding the same mentality as with the council estate lynch-mob who believe there's a paedophile on every street corner etc etc.
I think the figures have gone down marginally for most crime over the last couple of years, gun crime included, because of relative economic prosperity.
However, over the long-term the situation is much worse in this type of crime than was the case in the 80's & the upward trend is obvious.