Originally posted by FreakyKBHIf they are so forsworn, as you claim, and with guns relatively easy to obtain here in Indonesia (the world's biggest Muslim majority nation) for those who are motivated to lay hands on them, why do you think there have been no mass shootings of homosexuals here?
Last time I checked, Muslims are foresworn to kill all homosexuals.
14 Jun 16
Originally posted by FMFGee, that's a real head scratcher, FMF.
If they are so forsworn, as you claim, and with guns relatively easy to obtain here in Indonesia (the world's biggest Muslim majority nation) for those who are motivated to lay hands on them, why do you think there have been no mass shootings of homosexuals here?
I was going to go with the obvious, which is to say: in order to have a mass shooting, you need a mass amount of people first, but I will defer to your "expertise" on all things Indonesian.
In a country tipping nearly 90% Muslim, why don't we hear of any one from that Religion of Peace walking into a popular gay bar crowded with Latino LGBT's and massively killing them?
I'm on the edge of my seat, dipstick.
14 Jun 16
Originally posted by FreakyKBHYou haven't answered my question. There are gay bars and clubs in Indonesia. There are countless openly gay people, especially in cities. There are openly gay people on TV. You have claimed "Muslims are forsworn to kill all homosexuals". Guns are available. In your view, why have there been no mass shootings of homosexuals here?
Gee, that's a real head scratcher, FMF.
I was going to go with the obvious, which is to say: in order to have a mass shooting, you need a mass amount of people first, but I will defer to your "expertise" on all things Indonesian.
In a country tipping nearly 90% Muslim, why don't we hear of any one from that Religion of Peace walking into a popular gay ...[text shortened]... crowded with Latino LGBT's and massively killing them?
I'm on the edge of my seat, dipstick.
14 Jun 16
Originally posted by FMFTher is no such Thing as THE Islam. The brand lived in Indonesia mainly is far less belligerent than the one seen as the only valid form by the IS.
You haven't answered my question. There are gay bars and clubs in Indonesia. There are countless openly gay people, especially in cities. There are openly gay people on TV. You have claimed "Muslims are forsworn to kill all homosexuals". Guns are available. In your view, why have there been no mass shootings of homosexuals here?
14 Jun 16
Originally posted by PonderableWell that wasn't analysis that FreakyKBH offered. And I am asking about the analysis that he did offer. He said "Muslims are forsworn to kill all homosexuals. "Perhaps he only meant to say American Muslims born and bred in New York are forsworn to kill all homosexuals. It's interesting that you are tackling me about what he claimed rather than tackling him directly.
Ther is no such Thing as [b]THE Islam. The brand lived in Indonesia mainly is far less belligerent than the one seen as the only valid form by the IS.[/b]
Originally posted by FMFIn fact I didn't intend to tackle anyone. I just wanted to give a reasonable answer to the question.
Well that wasn't analysis that FreakyKBH offered. And I am asking about the analysis that he did offer. He said "Muslims are forsworn to kill all homosexuals. "Perhaps he only meant to say American Muslims born and bred in New York are forsworn to kill all homosexuals. It's interesting that you are tackling me about what he claimed rather than tackling him directly.
Edit: In fact I am opposingFreaky'S notion that the muslims want anything as a group, so I am tackling his point if you want a "Tackling".
Originally posted by PonderableWhat you have is a mentally ill, alcohol-abusing, wife-beating violent, non-religious, nominal Muslim American from New York pumped up on some ideology and armed to the teeth who has flipped and murdered 50 people. And yet the analysis is [1] "Muslims are forsworn to kill all homosexuals".
In fact I didn't intend to tackle anyone. I just wanted to give a reasonable answer to the question.
Edit: In fact I am opposingFreaky'S notion that the muslims want anything as a group, so I am tackling his point if you want a "Tackling".
Presumably, if he hadn't been a Muslim then the analysis would have been about how he was [1] mentally ill [2] alcohol-abusing [3] wife-beating violent non-religious American from New York [4] pumped up on some ideology and [5] armed to the teeth who has [6] flipped and murdered 50 people.
I find it interesting how the 'Muslims-are-forsworn-blah-blah' analysis rises immediately to the surface and the rest of the profile ~ the stuff that might actually explain why the tragedy/atrocity happened ~ appears to go on the back burner. It's as if 'Muslims-are-forsworn-blah-blah' analysis is in some way more ideologically convenient.
14 Jun 16
Originally posted by FMFOne point is that the extreme Muslims like those belonging to the IS make the Headlines. And they do not approve of homosexuality, and even kill homosexuals, e.g. by throwing them from buildings. (Do I Need to explain, that I do not approve of that?)
What you have is a mentally ill, alcohol-abusing, wife-beating violent, non-religious, nominal Muslim American from New York pumped up on some ideology and armed to the teeth who has flipped and murdered 50 people. And yet the analysis is [1] "Muslims are forsworn to kill all homosexuals".
Presumably,[b] if he hadn't been a Muslim then the analysis woul ...[text shortened]... 's as if 'Muslims-are-forsworn-blah-blah' analysis is in some way more ideologically convenient.[/b]
Of course it is more convinient to just paint in black and White, and humans will do it on both sides of the fence.
So if the IS-prophets go on about the devilish USA they fail to exclude US Moslems... and when US citizens rage about Islamists, they fail to exclude the moderate Muslims.
14 Jun 16
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Originally posted by FMFI don't know but I don't think taking guns away is the answer.
How does it need to "change"? You're always good for dark muttering, but light on actual ideas and proposals that might get scrutinized.
Also, not being able to discuss the facts and call things what they are, such as Islamic terrorism, is key to any decision making.
Is there any answer to stop all killing? I think that is a pipe dream.
I almost think that if it had been a bomb instead of a gun, people would have been relieved in some way.
14 Jun 16
Originally posted by whodeyI'm sorry but political wittering like this just raises questions. Be clear. Discuss what facts? Call things what? What decision making would you like to see?
Also, not being able to discuss the facts and call things what they are, such as Islamic terrorism, is key to any decision making.
14 Jun 16
Originally posted by FMFhttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_Indonesia
You haven't answered my question. There are gay bars and clubs in Indonesia. There are countless openly gay people, especially in cities. There are openly gay people on TV. You have claimed "Muslims are forsworn to kill all homosexuals". Guns are available. In your view, why have there been no mass shootings of homosexuals here?
A couple nuggets from the first source that popped up:
"Public discussion of homosexuality in Indonesia has been inhibited by the fact that human sexuality in any form is rarely discussed or depicted openly."
Or
"In recent years, LGBT people in Indonesia are facing growing hostility and intolerance."
While the larger cities are less strident, to claim the Muslim communities are 'down with it' is beyond an extreme exaggeration.
From the testimony of just a few gay folks, society is tolerant--- just don't tell anyone about it, and everything will be fine.
With only Aceh under Sharia law, it's kind of difficult to make a case that Muslim Indonesia looks anything like, say for instance, Muslim Iran.