Thank you pradf. I appreciate you answering my questions. I don't k
now if you are aware, but I was raised on a Texas cattle ranch. A small one, albiet, but nevertheless....
I have raised sheep and goats, pigs, and cattle since I was 8, showing them in the Livestock show. They became my friends, and part of my family. I couldn't bear to sell them at the end of the show, so I kept them. I bred my own sheep, goats, and cattle for the shows, and then kept them each year. My sister and I would spend hours with our animals. They are spoiled rotten, as a matter of fact! Now that she is graduating from high school, we decided to sell our sheep. We know some people up in central Texas with a huge beautiful sheep farm in the rolling hills. We made a deal with them so that they will not sell them. They will live out their days in green meadows. I feel good about that. We did keep our to pet sheep, and our goats run free in the fields.
I have started eating veggie products and I am tryiong to make the adjustment.
Originally posted by elvendreamgirlHow wonderful to hear this! From your past posts, you seem to be such a kind and thoughtful person...and I am sure the animals appreciate you very much.
Thank you pradf. I appreciate you answering my questions. I don't k
now if you are aware, but I was raised on a Texas cattle ranch. A small one, albiet, but nevertheless....
I have raised sheep and goats, pigs, and cattle since I was 8, showing them in the Livestock show. They became my friends, and part of my family. I couldn't bear to sell them ...[text shortened]... the fields.
I have started eating veggie products and I am tryiong to make the adjustment.
I am a humane educator so I do alot of educating of students about kindness to animals...and I don't know if you recall the Saving Bacon thread...but i have heard of alot of stories where kids bond with their animals and the other way around, and it tears them to pieces to have to sell their friends for food. It is a sad thing indeed, however, I am so happy that you have been able to keep your animals and been able to build relationships with them!
I think it's awesome that you are eating more veggie products! I know that even in Texas, most grocery stroes now carry fake meat products in the produce section and soy milk is becoming more and more available!
Bon apetite!
Sangeeta
Originally posted by SangeetaI bought soy milk today!
How wonderful to hear this! From your past posts, you seem to be such a kind and thoughtful person...and I am sure the animals appreciate you very much.
I am a humane educator so I do alot of educating of students about kindness to animals...and I don't know if you recall the Saving Bacon thread...but i have heard of alot of stories where kids bond wit ...[text shortened]... e produce section and soy milk is becoming more and more available!
Bon apetite!
Sangeeta
One year in the show, they changed the rule, and people were not allowed to pull out their animals. I took my lamb for a "walk" and put him in the truck. I put a cowboy hat on him and snuck him out and took him home. I hid him in my bedroom. He even slept on my bed.
I found out later my parents paid a penalty to allow me to keep him . :-)
Here we go again.
Never mind reputable Australian animal welfare organisations do not share your concern about wool production.
Never mind in your own countries farm animals are confined in cages and never see the light of day - while Australian sheep roam free range in social groups as in nature.
Never mind the operation is for animal welfare - would you prefer farmers to stop and allow animals to suffer and die from flystrike?
Just more reasons why no-one takes animal rights people seriously.
Originally posted by SangeetaHere is a question for you. Let us imagine the boycott suceeds and the one hundred million sheep and the thirty five million lambs born in Australia each year become worthless as no-one wants to buy wool or meat.
How wonderful to hear this! From your past posts, you seem to be such a kind and thoughtful person...and I am sure the animals appreciate you very much.
I am a humane educator so I do alot of educating of students about kindness to animals...and I don't know if you recall the Saving Bacon thread...but i have heard of alot of stories where kids bond wit ...[text shortened]... e produce section and soy milk is becoming more and more available!
Bon apetite!
Sangeeta
How do you propose to deal with these animals? Given Australia is one of the driest places and is easily overgrazed, releasing them to wander and eat native plants in competion to kangaroos would be an ecological and animal welfare disaster. Most would die of hunger, flystrike or from wild dogs - and they would drive several native marsupials to extinction as they eat plants to the ground.
Would a humane person such as yourself be prepared to help kill 100 million sheep?
Originally posted by steerpikeI think pradtf outlined in his posts that there are more humane and less cruel methods to prevent them from getting flystrike.If a little more time and effort lessens the pain for those animals, I see no reason why you shouldn't walk the extra mile.
Never mind the operation is for animal welfare - would you prefer farmers to stop and allow animals to suffer and die from flystrike?
Just more reasons why no-one takes animal rights people seriously.
Originally posted by steerpikeI think if the boycott suceeds then people who rear sheep in australia would be forced to change their methods to prevent cruelty to animals.Basic capitalism allows for that.
Here is a question for you. Let us imagine the boycott suceeds and the one hundred million sheep and the thirty five million lambs born in Australia each year become worthless as no-one wants to buy wool or meat.
Would a humane person such as yourself be prepared to help kill 100 million sheep?
Originally posted by steerpike
Here we go again.
my sentiments exactly, steerpike!
Never mind reputable Australian animal welfare organisations do not share your concern about wool production.
many others obviously do otherwise this international boycott wouldn't be happening. nor would the Democrats, Greens leaders have signed the anti-live export petition
Never mind in your own countries farm animals are confined in cages and never see the light of day - while Australian sheep roam free range in social groups as in nature.
well that's a strange one. this isn't a political attack on australians. feel free to lead a boycott of US meat if that is your concern. what is done to animals in factory farms is inexcusable, but it doesn't make what is done to the sheep any more justifiable.
Never mind the operation is for animal welfare - would you prefer farmers to stop and allow animals to suffer and die from flystrike?
as druiddavi has pointed out, there are many alternatives available. they just aren't implemented because certain people can't be bothered. one of the ideas behind the boycott is to get these certain people to bother.
Just more reasons why no-one takes animal rights people seriously.
it is unfortunate that you have this animosity towards animal rights people. I think it clouds your picture of reality. For instance, nearly a year ago you didn't even know what mulesing was or believe that it existed simply because you, yourself, have sheared sheep in your country:
"I showed my ignorance earlier about mulesing. If you hear of it happening in my county. tell me about it and I will personally raise it with farmer goups and politicians. I don't condone cruelty in farming."
steerpike in Animals in their natural state
http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=11047
what you don't seem to want to acknowledge is that AR people are fighting against exactly what you do not condone - cruelty in farming. Yet because you carry this 'grudge', you weave most inappropriate stories against them. Admittedly, you did apologize for this:
"If I you think I have tarred all animal rights people with the actions of a violent few, I apologise. It was not my intention to do so. If it distracts from my argument - which is the anti-fur campaign is hypocrisy - I regret it."
steerpike in Is there a difference between wearing fur or wearing leather
http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=11033&page=4
but now you are doing your usual anti-AR song and dance again.
I would like to take you seriously and believe you do want to put an end to animal cruelty, but the remarkably dramatic pictures you paint of AR activists simultaneously releasing one hundred million sheep and the thirty five million lambs to such horrible deaths from hunger, flystrike, and dogs is really a bit of excessive fantasizing. I think you just say these things because you want an argument not because you really believe in the absurdity.
Anyway, druidravi has answered your concerns i'm sure, so there really isn't any point in my improving on his efforts.
In friendship,
prad
Originally posted by pradtfFirst of all, a point of etiquette. I am not your friend - so please do not refer to me "in friendship". I find it patronising.
Originally posted by steerpike
[b]Here we go again.
my sentiments exactly, steerpike!
Never mind reputable Australian animal welfare organisations do not share your concern about wool production.
many others obviously do otherwise this international boycott wouldn't be happening. nor would the Democrats, Greens leaders have signed th ...[text shortened]... e, so there really isn't any point in my improving on his efforts.
In friendship,
prad
[/b]
You are part of an organisation that contain many threatening thugs - such as the ones who recently dug out an old woman's grave and desecrated her remains and those who use violence against people and property. Now I don't bother trawling through old posts - so remind me again how you personally feel about threatening and intimidating people who disagree with you.
why grant! what an unexpected and uncharacteristic outburst from you!
First of all, a point of etiquette. I am not your friend - so please do not refer to me "in friendship". I find it patronising.
on a point of etiquette, i don't think it is for you to decide what i use as my signature.
You are part of an organisation that contain many threatening thugs - such as the ones who recently dug out an old woman's grave and desecrated her remains and those who use violence against people and property.
what is this organization that contain many threatening thugs? gravediggers anonymous? and just which organization is it that uses violence against people and property?
Now I don't bother trawling through old posts - so remind me again how you personally feel about threatening and intimidating people who disagree with you.
no, i think i'd prefer for you to trawl through all my posts over the past years and then you can see, first hand, how i have dealt with people who disagree with me (including you!) 😉
in friendship,
prad
Originally posted by pradtfI would have thought it would be common courtesy to refer to a person as they would like to be addressed. To me it is hypocritical and mealy mouthed to refer to someone "in friendship" after you talk of their clouded picture of reality and of carrying a grudge.
why grant! what an unexpected and uncharacteristic outburst from you!
[b]First of all, a point of etiquette. I am not your friend - so please do not refer to me "in friendship". I find it patronising.
on a point of etiquette, i don't think it is for you to decide what i use as my signature.
You are part of an organisation that contain many t ...[text shortened]... how i have dealt with people who disagree with me (including you!) 😉
in friendship,
prad
Animal rights activists have commited crimes against lives and property. As someone who supports animal rights, can you give a clear statement as to where you stand on attacks on the lives and property of those who hold different views from your own?
Originally posted by steerpikeoh come on grant! you have this thing about AR and it is most unreasonable.
I would have thought it would be common courtesy to refer to a person as they would like to be addressed. To me it is hypocritical and mealy mouthed to refer to someone "in friendship" after you talk of their clouded picture of realit ...[text shortened]... and property of those who hold different views from your own?
you know very well that it is completely inaccurate to portray AR activists as people who go around attacking the lives and property of those who hold different views. we've been through all this (more than once), but you've obviously forgotten my post which generated your apparently sincere apology on june 7, 2004. so here i'll duplicate it for you:
i agree with fjord on this too. you have done this sort of thing in the past.
we are engaged in a credible conversation and then you emit a stink bomb.
for instance in the paganism thread, things are going just fine as christians and atheistics are working things out when suddenly you blurt out:
You are right but the "christians" on this thread are not interested in equality -they want their point of view put forward by the state and other beliefs suppressed.
http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?id=8755&page=2
or in the Animal experiments: a necessary evil? thread, i am led to believe we are actually communicating our different perspectives in a mature fashion, when out of nowhere bursts forth the enflatulation:
Does AR have a cuteness quotient on lab animals? Monkeys and beagle research and you bomb the homes of experimenters, rats and mice worth spray paint, really don't care about reptiles, insects and bacteria?
http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?id=7819&page=2
if you do this to amuse yourself i suppose it may or perhaps you are trying to 'upset' the person you are debating with by altering the immediate atmosphere.
however, it detracts from both the content and conduct of the thread when you fail to restrain your inner hostilities and express them as petty grivances and unqualified accusations.
it seems a shame to resort to such tactics when generally much of the exchanges with you are factual and mutually respectful - and each party is trying to contribute to the knowledge of the other.
if you feel unable to restrain yourself, please at least give a warning so we know what is on its way.
in friendship,
prad
http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=11033&page=4
so you just get upset about something or other and decide you are going to take it out on the AR activists or whatever presents itself as a target at the time.
by far the vast majority of AR activists tend to be peaceful (me too - even in my posts, i think 😀 ), despite absurd statements such as yours. pretty well every social justice movement does tend to have an extreme component, but as you yourself wrote:
If I you think I have tarred all animal rights people with the actions of a violent few, I apologise. It was not my intention to do so.
now, if you can post in this thread without making wild accusations, having put aside your grudge (at least for a bit), i think your picture of reality will become somewhat unclouded (we can get back to our sheep shearing discussion which i had intended to get back to you on). then you will no longer have any reason to consider me hypocritical and mealy mouthed. 😀
we might actually have an agreeable conversation on topic without these bizarre interjections.
we have done it before.
in friendship,
prad
Originally posted by SangeetaWell I guess we all should just run around naked and freeze our assets off so the sheep can keep their wool. Sheep wool is one of natures finest natural insulators. It even retains its warmth when wet. My "woolie pullie" sweater is one of my favorite articles of clothing because of its light weight and warmth. If we use man-made insulating material then you people will complain about the enviroment due to its use of petroleum to make fiberglass.
You pose an interesting arguement.
Though on first thought wool may seem like a renewable resource, however, in order to get wool, the cost to the environment is great. I did some research about this, and here is what I found…
Climate Change
Manure generated from livestock has significantly contributed to the increase in atmospheric "greenhouse" g ...[text shortened]... o and I haven’t ever found a problem with getting alternatives to wool.
Sincerely,
Sangeeta
