continue your analogy to seat belt laws, while the law requires you to wear one, if you dont you get a fine, not a criminal record.[/b]I am against seatbelt laws for adults also. Children should be required, but I don't believe the Government should protect me from myself. Should there be a law against eating too much junk-food. It is far more harmful, and costs more in health care costs than pot. Shoud obesity be criminalized?
Originally posted by AcolyteI agree, bragging about drug consupmtion is idiotic. Some kids have a warped sense of what 'grown-up' means, imitating people a few years older who still aren't very mature about these things.
Most bragging is idiotic.
It could be argued that one solution to the problem would be to eliminate the ''grown-up'' image of drugs/alcohol. In the States, where one may not drink legally until the age of 21, there is a large underage drinking problem which is made worse by the exact mindset you and Tony mentioned. (Also, it is foolish to arrest a perfectly sober 20-year-old for driving with closed bottles of beer in his car, as happened to an acquaintance of mine last month, particularly when people two years his junior are allowed to join an organization which requires that they be shot at when the situation demands it.)
Originally posted by knapperjaKnapperja: "I am against seatbelt laws for adults also."
I am against seatbelt laws for adults also. Children should be required, but I don't believe the Government should protect me from myself. Should there be a law against eating too much junk-food. It is far more harmful, and costs more in health care costs than pot. Shoud obesity be criminalized?
Are you also willing to pay for the medical expences in case of an accident, or do you want the insurance company or society to pay for it ?
Originally posted by AcolyteAcolyte: "Banning them does not enhance personal responsibility; in effect it is an admission that the individual is irresponsible - "people don't know what's good for them, so we'll have to force them to do what's good for them." This is like the government treating adult citizens as if they were children."
The same could be said of countless activities - this is why I would advocate taxing marijuana, similar to cigarette duty. I'm not neglecting the person's responsibility to society either - it is the person's responsibility to use drugs in moderation, if at all. I am not advocating excessive drug use, and people should by all means be warned away from i ...[text shortened]... s is where the individual's responsibility (beyond a catch-all 'upholding the law'😉 comes in.
What do you do with people who are not able to act responsibly ?
Originally posted by ivanhoeMy point is if you want to protect people from themselves, the cost of obesity (diabetes, heart disease and such) is more expensive than costs of drug use. So if you want to protect people from themselves, we should outlaw junk food and anything else dangerous. Which would be ridiculous. Snowshoeing can be dangerous in case of avalanche and it costs society to go try and dig people out. The problem with drug use, is some people have attached some kind of moral judgement to it, when they don't have that attachment to something more harmful like obesity. People should be responsible for their own actions, and free to make their own mistakes. The money made by taxing drugs would more than make up for the costs to society, rather than the millions spent in the losing drug war.
Knapperja: "I am against seatbelt laws for adults also."
Are you also willing to pay for the medical expences in case of an accident, or do you want the insurance company or society to pay for it ?
Originally posted by richjohnsonBy not wearing a seatbelt you are endangering others. A motorist who is catapulted through his/her windscreen is not just a danger to him/herself. This is even more true of back-seat passengers.
Yes. The same arguments apply to any drug. Criminal law has proven an ineffective tool for dealing with substance abuse. To continue your analogy to seat belt laws, while the law requires you to wear one, if you dont you get a fine, not a criminal record.
Originally posted by ivanhoeHopefully they will eventually realise they have a problem and seek therapy, and a great effort should be made to encourage them to do so, both by the state and by their family and friends. If they don't, then I agree they could be in a real pickle. But there's no way to eliminate foolishness of this kind, only minimise its harm to others. Once people get in this position, fines or prison are unlikely to transform them into responsible people. It is an unfortunate fact of life that whatever choices people have, many people will make bad choices along the way, and a few will make really bad choices; this is true whether there are laws against it or not. Look at the number of divorces, for example. Do you think banning divorce would cause couples never to fall out of love with each other?
Acolyte: "Banning them does not enhance personal responsibility; in effect it is an admission that the individual is irresponsible - "people don't know what's good for them, so we'll have to force them to do what's good for them." This is like the government treating adult citizens as if they were children."
What do you do with people who are not able to act responsibly ?
Hmm, that was a bit long-winded. In brief there's not much you can do for them, but that isn't a justification for the rest of society to be deprived of freedom. To borrow a line I've heard from some Christians, suffering is the result of free will.
Originally posted by AcolyteAcolyte: ""To borrow a line I've heard from some Christians, suffering is the result of free will."
Hopefully they will eventually realise they have a problem and seek therapy, and a great effort should be made to encourage them to do so, both by the state and by their family and friends. If they don't, then I agree they could be in a real pickle. But there's no way to eliminate foolishness of this kind, only minimise its harm to others. Once people g ...[text shortened]... eedom. To borrow a line I've heard from some Christians, suffering is the result of free will.
Then happiness also is the result of free will .......
Sublime:
Smoke 2 Joints
I smoke two joints in the morning.
I smoke two joints at night.
I smoke two joints in the afternoon, it makes me feel alright
I smoke two joints in time of peace, and two in time of war
I smoke two joints before I smoke two joints,
And then I smoke two more
Smoked cigarettes ’til the day she died
Toke a big spliff of some good sensimillia
Smoked cigarettes ’til the day she died
Toke a big spliff of some good sensamill..."
"easy-e were ya ever caught slippin’? " "hell no!"
Daddy he once told me "son you be hard workin’ man"
And momma she once told me "son you do the best you can"
But, then one day I met a man who came to me and said
"hard work good, and hard work fine but first take care of head"
(guitar solo)
Whoa, rock me tonight,
Whoa-oh, jah sake,
Whoa-ohh
Or.....
Peter Tosh:
Legalize It
Warning..
The surgeon general warns:
Cigarette smoking is dangerous,
dangerous, hazard to your health
Does that mean anything to you?
Then legalize marijuana
Right here in Jamaica
Dem say it cure glaucoma
I am a de bush doctor
So there'll be
No more smoking and feeling tense
When I see dem a come
I don't have fi jump no fence
Legalize marijuana
Down here in Jamaica
Only cure for asthma
I man a de minister
So there'll be no more police brutality
No more disrespect for humanity
Legalize marijuana
Down here in Jamaica
It can build up a failing economy
Eliminate the slavish mentality
So there'll be no more illegal humiliation
No more police interrogation
Legalize marijuana
Down here in sweet Jamaica
Only cure for glaucoma
I man a de bush doctor yeah!
And there'll be no more need
To smoke and hide
When you know you're taking
A legal ride
Legalize marijuana
Down here in Jamaica
it's the only cure for glaucoma
I man a de minister...
These songs in no way reflect the ideas of the poster. Just something to look at besides people trying to figure out if Pot is right or wrong for themselves or society.
One more with guitar tabs.....
Jonathin Edwards:
Shanty
G
gonna sit down in the kitchen and fix me something good to eat
C
and make my head a little high and make this whole day complete
G E7 C D G
cuz we gonna lay around the shanty mama and put a good buzz on
G
well pass it to me baby, pass it to me slow
C
we'll take time out to smile a little before we let it go
G E7 C D G
cuz we gonna lay around the shanty mama and put a good buzz on
(piano solo)
G
well there ain't nothin' to do and there's always room for more
C
fill it, light it, shut up and close the door
G E7 C D G
cuz we gonna lay around the shanty mama and put a good buzz on
(harmonica solo)
G
we gonna sit around the kitchen fix us somethin' good to eat
C
and make ourselves a little high and make the whole day complete
G E7 C D G
cuz we gonna lay around the shanty mama and put a good buzz on
G E7 C D G
cuz we gonna lay around the shanty mama and put a good buzz on
P-
Originally posted by VargWell said! This is the best statement on the subject that I have ever seen. Over twenty years of hiring carpenters... about one a week, I saw what weed does to people. A weed during the lunch break? Stupid the rest of the day. On occasion I would see a guy came back from lunch, load up a stud tray to cut 250 studs to length and then stand and stare at them for an hour. These people never had a clue that they were spaced. Dangerous. So they were fired and you try again. You can't rely on someone who loses track of time-space when several others safety depends on that persons awareness.
Leaving all the other arguments aside, people who occasionally smoke recreationally I have no problems with.
But I find hardcore stoners to be complete morons who bore me stupid because they have no subject of conversation except weed, and can rarely be roused to actually think about anything at all.
Several of my friends have turned from reasonably intelligent, outgoing people into stay-at-home vegetables. 🙁
And the "Stay-at-home vegetables" are the ones who tend to get into cocaine and heroin. Seen a few of those over the years. The most painful of which is a nephew with three children. Those poor kids are suffering greatly over it all.
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- 20 Feb 02
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I wont smoke dope for one single reason, I quit smoking and that is a sure far path back to the dark side.
I have always found it a very weak argument that the majority of the population must be deprived of something as a minority are unable to act in a civilised way.
It seems the whole of our society is being dragged to the lowest common denominator. As for dope, it is banned as it is generally seen as a young persons tipple and governments like to be seen to be "strong" on the "unrully young". Sure, it may harm your health, so do so many things we do every day in our lives - anyone driven in London recently! Sure, it may be addictive, well its not just fags and booze - try and tell your girl she cant have no more chocolat! It may lead on the path to criminality, no one I know ever went on to be a heroin addict who burgled people - but I am sure there are some burgulars out there who are addictied to heroin and like a joint as well.
Governments have so much stuff to worry about, they need stick to keeping the big macro economic issues ticking over and stop wasting tax worring about interferring into peoples personal lives. If someone gets into drugs as a consequence, well that life, nobody said it was fair.
Nanny state, blame culture, dissolution of personal responibility - these are not good trends for the direction our contries seem to be going, are they?
Andrew