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22 Jun 04
Originally posted by GatecrasherI'm surprised you believe that this game was "hopelessly tied up", as White seems to me to have all the preconditions for a successful attack. The centre is closed, enabling the stronger side (White) to build up his forces and attack at the right moment. Black can only wait. I would have brought both White's rooks to the kingside and opened Black up by pawn to g4.
The 3-1-0 points system is enough incentive to avoid draws. But sometimes thay are unavoidable. The idea is to have fun, not bust a gut in hopelessly tied up games. Here's an example:
Game 402364
The draw was a mercy to both players.
Much better to agree the draw and conserve energy for games that are still playable.
With best play, Black might have been able to defend and get a draw, but White would have had all the fun.
Dave
22 Jun 04
Originally posted by GatecrasherI'm not saying that draws aren't unavoidable, what i'm sayin is that there are some cases where draws are agreed upon, and there was plenty of game left to play...but as for wasting energy, if u can't spend some time with some of the more difficult games then u shouldn't even spend time with the games that are very simple, and easy...as the old sayin goes, "Beggers can't be choosers!" if u want a game u gotta play the opening, middle, and end no matter how tough they are...but some do avoid parts of games through draws... 😉
The 3-1-0 points system is enough incentive to avoid draws. But sometimes thay are unavoidable. The idea is to have fun, not bust a gut in hopelessly tied up games. Here's an example:
Game 402364
The draw was a mercy to both players.
Much better to agree the draw and conserve energy for games that are still playable.
23 Jun 04
Originally posted by David Tebb😳 Damn it, David, I should have consulted you before agreeing to the draw!
I'm surprised you believe that this game was "hopelessly tied up", as White seems to me to have all the preconditions for a successful attack. The centre is closed, enabling the stronger side (White) to build up his forces and attack at the right moment. Black can only wait. I would have brought both White's rooks to the kingside and opened Black up b ...[text shortened]... ck might have been able to defend and get a draw, but White would have had all the fun.
Dave
Unfortunately I'm not very good at assesing positions - its part of my game I'm working hard on to improve.
I've looked at the game again, and, yes, I can see your point. At the time it just looked like a hopeless tangle.
23 Jun 04
Originally posted by knapsterI get your point, but why should it bother you? Everyone has the option to decline and play on. Surely its a matter of personal preference.
I'm not saying that draws aren't unavoidable, what i'm sayin is that there are some cases where draws are agreed upon, and there was plenty of game left to play...but as for wasting energy, if u can't spend some time with some of the more difficult games then u shouldn't even spend time with the games that are very simple, and easy...as the old sayin g ...[text shortened]... dle, and end no matter how tough they are...but some do avoid parts of games through draws... 😉
In a tounament, for example, I'd be quite happy if most of the other games were ending in draws. That way only two points are awarded instead of three, thus improving my chances. 🙂
23 Jun 04
Originally posted by GatecrasherIt doesn't "bother" me per se...i only care for the game...cuz i think that some players are getting off easy by taking draws early on, when in fact many of the games would finish with one person being declared a winner, instead of two player being "tied" in a game...and again in fact the true purpose of playing this wonderful game is to "mate" your opponent...
I get your point, but why should it bother you? Everyone has the option to decline and play on. Surely its a matter of personal preference.
In a tounament, for example, I'd be quite happy if most of the other games were ending in draws. That way only two points are awarded instead of three, thus improving my chances. 🙂
Your chances would improve even more if drawn games awarded both players zero points 🙂
27 Jun 04
I'm not sure black should have taken a draw at that point in game
The 3-1-0 points system is enough incentive to avoid draws. But sometimes thay are unavoidable. The idea is to have fun, not bust a gut in hopelessly tied up games. Here's an example:
Game 402364
The draw was a mercy to both players.
Much better to agree the draw and conserve energy for games that are still playable.
402364. His two knights are superior in such a position and white had numerous weak squares which could have been occupied by the black knights. It also might have been possible to muster an attack on the g file.
I agree with the general drift of your letter, though. A draw is a proper result when there is not a reasonable chance for either player to win.
27 Jun 04
Originally posted by flexmoreThere's an almost completely fair way to play a single game of chess: on Black's first move, he either plays as usual, or he copies White's move and puts White's piece back to its starting position. Thereafter the game proceeds normally, with White making the next move. This is similar to the cake-cutting problem - effectively White cuts the cake and Black chooses which half he'd prefer.
i would like it if white could NEVER castle kingside ....
this would make the game more fair and simultaneously make it more unbalanced.
28 Jun 04
Originally posted by GatecrasherYes, I agree, but I like positions like that. It is where I see if my opponent has better tactics than me. I like playing cramp positions although it hurts my head quite alot.
The 3-1-0 points system is enough incentive to avoid draws. But sometimes thay are unavoidable. The idea is to have fun, not bust a gut in hopelessly tied up games. Here's an example:
Game 402364
The draw was a mercy to both players.
Much better to agree the draw and conserve energy for games that are still playable.
28 Jun 04
Originally posted by seraphimvultureI looked up Kramnick in a database and found some losses to 1600/1700 players in a simultanious!!!! More than one i might add. You'd never see kasparov do that!
I agree about the OTB tournaments. Many people who are really into chess complain that Kramnik plays for draws too much, which he's admitted to doing time to time. He won the Linares with like ten draws and two wins! I honestly see no problem with early draws though. Some games (positions) are just not worth the effort.
-Kev
04 Jul 04
Originally posted by David TebbI'm going to take completely inordinate pride in the fact that my analysis of that position, without having seen David's, agreed in all fundamental respects. 🙂
I'm surprised you believe that this game was "hopelessly tied up", as White seems to me to have all the preconditions for a successful attack. The centre is closed, enabling the stronger side (White) to build up his forces and attack at the right moment. Black can only wait. I would have brought both White's rooks to the kingside and opened Black up b ...[text shortened]... ck might have been able to defend and get a draw, but White would have had all the fun.
Dave
My first thought on looking at that position is stick the knight on h4, double rooks along the g file, shove the king to f2, push the g pawn, and shred the kingside into little itty bitty bits. Sac the knight somewhere and ram the rooks straight up the file, accompanied by the queen, or possibly a downright pawn storm if he declines to capture on g4. (although that would keep the bishops out of the action, so maybe shift 'em down first? or sac the light one on the f pawn and the dark one, if possible, on the h pawn.) etc. etc.
08 Jul 04
Originally posted by flexmoreNice idea but your handing black a big advantage. They would only have to storm the queenside every game from move one, knowing that that was the only safe side for white.
i would like it if white could NEVER castle kingside ....
this would make the game more fair and simultaneously make it more unbalanced.
10 Jul 04
Originally posted by knapsteri think that if a player is in a situation where they are not gonna win, and there opponent is not going to make advantage of the siuation ,then its fine.
what is up with all of the really high rated players taking draws when they are only half of the way done with the game? Honestly i think that it is ridiculous! and i think that to be a true champion u need to take risks and play the game out to see what will really happen...i read in an article once that the purpose of chess was to mate your opponent...he ...[text shortened]... that my draws are catching up to my losses...does anyone else have an opinion on draws?🙄😲😏😛