General
13 Dec 04
13 Dec 04
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Originally posted by RussFair enough. I would also like to state, for the record, that in spite of all these accusations and confessions, I do not think I have ever played against a cheater. From a chess standpoint my experience here at RHP has been nothing put positive, although fairly inept on my part at times. 😉
I am currently in the process of 'reacting' to the recent accusations and confessions. Hence the talk of game mods. I can't introduce game mods overnight, it takes time, but once they are in place, there will be a process for dealing with ...[text shortened]... ppear that I am delaying the inevitable in some cases.)
-Russ
Given all the screaming and yelling about this issue, I would assume I probably have played against a computer at one point or another. However, I believe in this case that ignorance is bliss.
Edit: I also want to make clear my full support of an alternative punishment to banning in cases such as SLAL's. In fact, I'm in favor of alternatives to banning in ALL cases...excluding actual damage to the site as a result of hacking (or whatever it is called). I hope to see my idea for a moratorium on chess playing but not forum posting for cheaters, discussed by the game mods.
TheSkipper
13 Dec 04
Basicly in the other games my win loss ratio is corresponding to how much time I spend on moves. Im still yet to beat anyone over 1900 on this site, and have losing games to a fair few players under 1500 that im trying like crazy to draw. In all those games, I want to play myself win or lose since its chess and I love it. Yet getting pulped by memans fritz is really getting on my nerves, im sure iv lost a game to a 1200 somewhere in my graph, but I laughed it off and congratulated him, you can bet your house than when meman wins I wont offer him the hand of friendship.
13 Dec 04
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Originally posted by rapalla7If I was id be clocking up wins against very high rated people which im not. No im not running engines against people I suspect, feel free to check the meman games and see if they match up to any engine.
Greyeyes,
You are using engines against people you suspect? Is that what you are saying? I am confused??
In one the match up is less than 60% in the top two and im still losing in the other its 30% and im being slapped about.
Should I lose these games? I think no, but its clear im not running an engine. The one game I am running an engine in is against Feviel which is a win for me and its not even move 20 yet.
13 Dec 04
Originally posted by PhlabibitMy point exactly.
I didn't expect logic... Nice post.
SLAL is one of my best friends here at RHP, so I will say nothing but that I am glad he came forward... regardless of how he said it.
I can't throw him under a bus, but can't blame anyone who does. angie88 makes a good point... if we all blast SLAL what is the point in people coming clean?
P-
I don't want people to come clean.
If you cheat, that's up to you, but don't come whining when the burden of guilt is too much and you feel like a dog turd for screwing your friends over behind their backs.
Just stop cheating and shut up about it.
13 Dec 04
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Originally posted by shavixmirI think to come clean will also help, rather than shutting of the engine alone. The evidence is still in your game history if you did cheat, so shutting off your engine is not enough, as the evidence remains.
My point exactly.
I don't want people to come clean.
If you cheat, that's up to you, but don't come whining when the burden of guilt is too much and you feel like a dog turd for screwing your friends over behind their backs.
Just stop cheating and shut up about it.
I do want them to either come forward and admit... or make a lame excuse and just leave. Better yet, just leave with no lame excuses!
If someone has cheated, it is too late to shut the engine off now and play on as normal.
P-
13 Dec 04
Originally posted by GrayeyesofsorrowI'm not accusing. I was just looking for clarification as I am just a dumb plumber and I get confused alot. 😉
If I was id be clocking up wins against very high rated people which im not. No im not running engines against people I suspect, feel free to check the meman games and see if they match up to any engine.
In one the match up is less than 60% in the top two and im still losing in the other its 30% and im being slapped about.
Should I lose the ...[text shortened]... I am running an engine in is against Feviel which is a win for me and its not even move 20 yet.
LOL, I would have thought with feivels hefty rating he would give ol' fritz a better run for his money. Fritz had his king on the ropes pretty quick. Machines don't give back when it comes to mistakes.
Mike
13 Dec 04
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Originally posted by rapalla7I thought about using the engine to see what moves he would make next, a sort of long term plan. It would have took hours to do it though and the chess mods on the way there is no point. But if the mods werent here to kick his bum, then yes I might just let fritz play Meman. I wont deny that. But Id never use an engine against a human and I dont think Sirlosealot would either.
I'm not accusing. I was just looking for clarification as I am just a dumb plumber and I get confused alot. 😉
LOL, I would have thought with feivels hefty rating he would give ol' fritz a better run for his money. Fritz had his kin ...[text shortened]... Machines don't give back when it comes to mistakes.
Mike
Just think back to 4 or 5 months ago, if I had of said Meman was cheating then my post had a half life less than a virgin at a dirty basta*ds convention. Its nice to can all wait for the chess mods now but before people just didnt have that option so they had to deal with it themselves and I imagine a lot turned to using engines against engine users. SirloseAlot is the only one to admit it, but he wont be the only one.
13 Dec 04
Originally posted by GrayeyesofsorrowOk, a person (that's any person) runs into some engine users (full time or partial) and deal with them game to game, blah blah.....what ever, that is one thing, you run their games for anticipation because you suspect them and find out you are totally right; after the game you never play them again. I keep a running list of people who have used engines against me. That does not mean you keep using an engine to achieve the top most rating. I don't think that everyone in the top is using an engine....or are they?
I thought about using the engine to see what moves he would make next, a sort of long term plan. It would have took hours to do it though and the chess mods on the way there is no point. But if the mods werent here to kick his bum, then yes I might just let fritz play Meman. I wont deny that. But Id never use an engine against a human and I dont ...[text shortened]... es against engine users. SirloseAlot is the only one to admit it, but he wont be the only one.
Mike
13 Dec 04
Originally posted by rapalla7No I dont think they are, but sometimes you cant advoid playing engine users and if SirLostAlot said he just used an engine against them, then I believe him and totally agree. The site is different now, cheating is something we can all talk about openingly and its already benifiting the site imo. Back then when any talk of cheating was stamped out, then we cant blame people who did use engines to even the feild of play against people who cheat in every game, because back then we werent doing anything to help them even the feild. So we cant judge, its easy to say keep a list etc and I think most people do these days and dont play them again, but we shouldnt have to run and hide away from cheaters. SirloseAlot decided to play them on a level feild, which is fair enough.
Ok, a person (that's any person) runs into some engine users (full time or partial) and deal with them game to game, blah blah.....what ever, that is one thing, you run their games for anticipation because you suspect them and find out you are totally right; after the game you never play them again. I keep a running list of people who have used engines ag ...[text shortened]... ost rating. I don't think that everyone in the top is using an engine....or are they?
Mike
Its people like FGWE and JW that I have a problem with, who cheat in every game against humans. If you got 2 games against FGWE when your rating was 1800 and his was 1400, would you really not let CM playing him ?
13 Dec 04
Originally posted by GrayeyesofsorrowI don't think SLOL shoul dbe stamped on too hard either, but "it's OK to cheat against cheaters" is BS. For a start SLOL doesn't expressly say that he only cheated against cheaters, but that he cheated to even the score because he knew some games had lost to cheaters. Cheating against honest players to get points back you lost against cheaters isn't any more OK than cheating for the heck of it.
No I dont think they are, but sometimes you cant advoid playing engine users and if SirLostAlot said he just used an engine against them, then I believe him and totally agree. The site is different now, cheating is something we can all talk about openingly and its already benifiting the site imo. Back then when any talk of cheating was stamped ou ...[text shortened]... ainst FGWE when your rating was 1800 and his was 1400, would you really not let CM playing him ?
Even if SLOL thought he was only using Fritz against other cheats, how did he know? How did he know that they weren't just playing well? He's given no indication (that I've seen) that he only used an engine after analysing the game and finding his opponent was using one too. And even if this was the case, how did he know?
And how is only using an engine for 1 or 2 moves a game any better than using one for 100% of moves? I lose most of my games because of 1 bad move. The thought flashes through my mind to use an engine when I know I could find a better move but don't have time to analyse properly, but I don't. Cheating for 1 move of a game means that the whole game has been cheated.
13 Dec 04
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Originally posted by belgianfreakYet again, its easy to say that now with the chess mods coming up, but iv had you delete my posts about cheaters in the chess forum. So its not worth coming out now and suggesting ways people should have dealt with cheaters since you stopped everyone having talks like this a long time ago which might have stopped SLOL ever having to use an engine against other cheaters.
I don't think SLOL shoul dbe stamped on too hard either, but "it's OK to cheat against cheaters" is BS. For a start SLOL doesn't expressly say that he only cheated against cheaters, but that he cheated to even the score because he ...[text shortened]... g for 1 move of a game means that the whole game has been cheated.
Frankly after you did delete a lot of my posts about FGWE etc, if I was to then use an engine against him and then have you blame me it would be wrong. Although that in not the case with SLOL, it was the deleting of any cheater threads that made the RHP culture that lead to SLOL doing this. You can tell by his posts that he is a reasonible person, and the fact that he admited it shows he is honest, which doesnt leave many reasons for him to cheat apart from he was pi*sed at losing games to cheaters and did something about it.
13 Dec 04
Originally posted by PhlabibitEverybody, don't listen to Phlab. This soap opera is the only thing that gets me through my boring day job! Keep up the bickering 😉
Been a long time coming, will be a bit of time before it works.... lets not all fight, and just see what comes of it?!
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