02 Aug 07
Originally posted by Hand of HecateI disagree. I believe all rights have limitations. You have the right to marry, but in many places you can only be married to one person at a time, and many places have laws about the age of the person you marry, not to mention their gender. You have the right to be gainfully employed, but not as a hitman or as a child pornographer. You have a right to shelter but you can't move into someone's mansion and tell them you're merely exercising your right to shelter. Your right to food doesn't give you the right to break into my house and sit at my table uninvited during dinner.
This is my feeling, either we have free speech or we don't.
Perhaps the definition of 'speech' needs to be clarified, 'speech' refers to any form of communication, literal or otherwise. Hence, slogans, symbols, art, clothing, tattoos, hand gestures and internet avatars can be considered 'speech'.
You may find my expression of thoughts, concep ...[text shortened]... cases, be prepared to be proven wrong. Keep an open mind and don't be a sheep.
When someone posted a thread that was subsequently pulled on this forum, the free speech issue never occurred to me; I engaged in conversation about the matter. But when someone posts a link glorifying pedophilia, I think that's a different matter and not covered by "free speech." Just my opinion.
02 Aug 07
Originally posted by KnightWulfeYes you would be within your rights. You'd be ignorant and stupid, but, within your rights. I'd also be within my rights to express my disdain for you.
So, were you a parent, I could go off a spew a stream of obscenities in front of your younglings and the only thing you could do is disagree?
Based on your definition, I would be fully within my rights to do exactly that. Wouldn't I?
02 Aug 07
Originally posted by pawnhandlerYou're correct, freedom does have limitations. If my acts impinge upon the freedom and rights of others then I have stepped over the line.
I disagree. I believe all rights have limitations. You have the right to marry, but in many places you can only be married to one person at a time, and many places have laws about the age of the person you marry, not to mention their gender. You have the right to be gainfully employed, but not as a hitman or as a child pornographer. You have a right ...[text shortened]... ia, I think that's a different matter and not covered by "free speech." Just my opinion.
Your hitman example is ridiculous as is your child pornography scenario. Obviously, both of these examples harm others and are a violation of their freedom.
Also, I'm not advocating complete freedom on this site as it has rules and boundries set by the owners. I am suggesting that just because we don't like an idea another person expresses doesn't mean we should stop them from expressing it. I'm also suggesting that regardless of how wrong you are, you are still entitled to an opinion and the expression thereof.
My original post was sparked by the racism debate invoked by Red Night. I think those that harbour racist views are small minded plonkers and deprive themselves of a wealth of human experience. Nonetheless, in the real world, they should be allowed to express their beliefs and I should be entitled to explain to them just how wrong they are.
02 Aug 07
Originally posted by Hand of HecateNo you couldn't. Same goes for any news paper, publishing company, public park, store, restaurant, and anywhere you like. If you want to get a permit to have a rally of sorts, or decide to throw one on your own, write an article, or stand on a soap box there is always a way for people to have you silenced if they think your ideas are damaging in some way.
Yes you did, I could almost hear the sonic boom as the point went flying by you.
Police will come take you away, you will be asked to leave, you will be rejected etc. As much right as you have to say what you like, someone has the right to tell you to shut up or boot you.
What is the sense in someone swearing in front of your kid and you swearing back? You call the police and let them know a clown is using vulgar language in front of your kids. What kind of lesson are you teaching your kid if you just shout obscenities back?
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02 Aug 07
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You have the right to ridicule the president. You have the right to say nappy headed ho'... you will not be thrown in jail. You may lose your job, but you're not going to go to jail for something unless there is a law saying you can't do something (like swearing in public, that must fall under some kind of decency law)
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02 Aug 07
Originally posted by PhlabibitYou so smart.
No you couldn't. Same goes for any news paper, publishing company, public park, store, restaurant, and anywhere you like. If you want to get a permit to have a rally of sorts, or decide to throw one on your own, write an article, or stand on a soap box there is always a way for people to have you silenced if they think your ideas are damaging in some way ...[text shortened]... kids. What kind of lesson are you teaching your kid if you just shout obscenities back?
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03 Aug 07
Originally posted by Hand of HecateWell, what sparked your original post wasn't put across plainly was it? So it ended up being misleading and blew up in your face. You're a smart guy and I generally like your posts but you missed the mark here. And then you debated a point that no one else was aware that you were debating.
You're correct, freedom does have limitations. If my acts impinge upon the freedom and rights of others then I have stepped over the line.
Your hitman example is ridiculous as is your child pornography scenario. Obviously, both of these examples harm others and are a violation of their freedom.
Also, I'm not advocating complete freedom on this ...[text shortened]... express their beliefs and I should be entitled to explain to them just how wrong they are.