22 Aug 07
Originally posted by cmsMasterDerek Jarman made a lovely film version of Tempest. I like it a lot because it is imaginatively atomospheric.
What a great invention, I'm actually enjoying and understanding the Tempest. Much better than the usual feeling I get when reading Shakespeare of "What?".
Mentioned just in case you may like it.
22 Aug 07
Originally posted by geniusOnce more unto the breach, dear friends, once more;
. I also watched a film of one of the Hendrys and I understood most of it, although I missed the famous quote. I'm not actually sure what the famous quote was, but it was there and I missed it. đ
Or close the wall up with our English dead.
In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
As modest stillness and humility:
But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
Then imitate the action of the tiger;
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favour'd rage;
Then lend the eye a terrible aspect;
Let pry through the portage of the head
Like the brass cannon; let the brow o'erwhelm it
As fearfully as doth a galled rock
O'erhang and jutty his confounded base,
Swill'd with the wild and wasteful ocean.
Now set the teeth and stretch the nostril wide,
Hold hard the breath and bend up every spirit
To his full height. On, on, you noblest English.
Whose blood is fet from fathers of war-proof!
Fathers that, like so many Alexanders,
Have in these parts from morn till even fought
And sheathed their swords for lack of argument:
Dishonour not your mothers; now attest
That those whom you call'd fathers did beget you.
Be copy now to men of grosser blood,
And teach them how to war. And you, good yeoman,
Whose limbs were made in England, show us here
The mettle of your pasture; let us swear
That you are worth your breeding; which I doubt not;
For there is none of you so mean and base,
That hath not noble lustre in your eyes.
I see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,
Straining upon the start. The game's afoot:
Follow your spirit, and upon this charge
Cry 'God for Harry, England, and Saint George
22 Aug 07
Or this one:
What's he that wishes so?
My cousin Westmoreland? No, my fair cousin:
If we are mark'd to die, we are enow
To do our country loss; and if to live,
The fewer men, the greater share of honour.
God's will! I pray thee, wish not one man more.
By Jove, I am not covetous for gold,
Nor care I who doth feed upon my cost;
It yearns me not if men my garments wear;
Such outward things dwell not in my desires:
But if it be a sin to covet honour,
I am the most offending soul alive.
No, faith, my coz, wish not a man from England:
God's peace! I would not lose so great an honour
As one man more, methinks, would share from me
For the best hope I have. O, do not wish one more!
Rather proclaim it, Westmoreland, through my host,
That he which hath no stomach to this fight,
Let him depart; his passport shall be made
And crowns for convoy put into his purse:
We would not die in that man's company
That fears his fellowship to die with us.
This day is called the feast of Crispian:
He that outlives this day, and comes safe home,
Will stand a tip-toe when the day is named,
And rouse him at the name of Crispian.
He that shall live this day, and see old age,
Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours,
And say 'To-morrow is Saint Crispian:'
Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars.
And say 'These wounds I had on Crispin's day.'
Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot,
But he'll remember with advantages
What feats he did that day: then shall our names.
Familiar in his mouth as household words
Harry the king, Bedford and Exeter,
Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester,
Be in their flowing cups freshly remember'd.
This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remember'd;
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition:
And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day
23 Aug 07
Originally posted by AttilaTheHornI have always liked the artistry and word smithing that is in the old English style, and those of Shakespeare's especially. The deeper meanings usually require thought and some imagination, maybe even some luck. Just reading the words are not that difficult. But the words that are used in the way they are used by this master, can paint a distorted picture and is by no means elementary.
Sweet are the uses of adversity;
Which, like the toad, ugly and venomous,
Wears yet a precious jewel in his head;
And this our life, exempt from public haunt,
Finds tongues in trees, books in the running brooks,
Sermons in stones, and good in every thing.
(As You Like It: Act II, Sc. 1)
Can someone please explain what jewel a frog wears in it's head. I am thinking he is referring to a brain. Still, why not just say brain so there won't be any misunderstandings?
I often wonder how many people are noble enough to actually understand the deeper meanings of these words in the presented context, and how many people are only seeing the Emperors threads as that of a frog.
23 Aug 07
Originally posted by cashthetrashDon't look too deeply for that one. There is a species of European toad which may be poisonous and has an appearance which suggests that there is a jewel growing on its head. (Maybe it attracts prey; I don't know.) Shakespeare is simply giving a description of such a toad.
I have always liked the artistry and word smithing that is in the old English style, and those of Shakespeare's especially. The deeper meanings usually require thought and some imagination, maybe even some luck. Just reading the words are not that difficult. But the words that are used in the way they are used by this master, can paint a distorted pictu ...[text shortened]... resented context, and how many people are only seeing the Emperors threads as that of a frog.
23 Aug 07
1 edit
Originally posted by AttilaTheHornThanks for the explanation, that takes on a new meaning for me then. I appreciate your explanation which now makes more sense. We have a similar poisonous creature called a gila Monster in the USA. More of a lizard though. Has a beaded head. http://www.desertusa.com/sep97/du_gilamonster.html
Don't look too deeply for that one. There is a species of European toad which may be poisonous and has an appearance which suggests that there is a jewel growing on its head. (Maybe it attracts prey; I don't know.) Shakespeare is simply giving a description of such a toad.
I sometimes read the Bible and although it is controversial to many people I find the stories interesting. In it's Old English form it can be a challenge sometimes. In the Bible I have, it has a parallel version called the Living bible, which is transposed to a more modern and easier wording. As an example, I find that while the meanings are much the same the artistry of the wording can be lacking in the Living Bible as opposed to the Old English style. So I can see how a rewrite to Shakespeare could be a very useful tool as one of the posters indicated. But Shakespeare's work still has to be enjoyed in it's original context to fully appreciate his style and completeness of content which can't be matched in my opinion to anything else I have ever read, with the exception of the Bible. That has to be at least it's equal when it comes to story line and artistry.
23 Aug 07
Originally posted by cashthetrashI believe the Bible was written in Aramaic and translated to Greek. Greeks didn't have a word for "several" or "many" so they threw the number 40 in there figuring that was quite a lot.
Thanks for the explanation, that takes on a new meaning for me then. I appreciate your explanation which now makes more sense. We have a similar poisonous creature called a gila Monster in the USA. More of a lizard though. Has a beaded head. http://www.desertusa.com/sep97/du_gilamonster.html
I sometimes read the Bible and although it is controversial ...[text shortened]... of the Bible. That has to be at least it's equal when it comes to story line and artistry.
Eventually the Bible was translated to English losing much of it's true meaning through 2 translations at least, plus the people in power at the time deciding what some passages 'really' mean.
The Bible is an interesting read, but I feel it was much like that game you play in school where a child says a sentence to the next child and they pass it along to their class mates coming back to the teacher for the them to read the first sentence and the final sentence.
The new sentence is much different, with remnants of the original idea. Each translation waters down or exaggerates the original idea depending on the translator.
P-
23 Aug 07
Originally posted by PhlabibitWell, I am not arguing where the Bible text was translated from. And I don't totally disagree with your facts. You have made good points especially if you are talking in terms of a spiritual matter. I wasn't however. The stories are still good in a literary sense and King James did a pretty good job of what he had to work with at the time. We can only work with what we have and the knowledge we have. I don't know that what we have now can be improved on all that much. The wording is still a piece of art even if you disagree. I think that Bible sales tells a lot about the quality of the product, although, marketing also effects sales. ( I don't really think you were disagreeing though) I was only comparing the Old English style of writing to that of Shakespeare. If I had a well translated version that came from the original Hebrew or Aramaic transcripts that might be interesting to. But I don't get all hung up and bent over small details. I was just enjoying the Old English word art. To me comments on spelling and minor issues are usually only a diversionary tactics that is intended to take away from content anyway. I highly recommend the Bible as a great read and anything Shakespeare as well. Both can and will create a passionate debate, and is filled with many truths and controversy. Still there is much wisdom and common sense from both. Read and be your own Judge. Even if not everything is understood completely, and parts are flawed, or even imperfect it is still worth the effort to read and ponder upon. I don't think you should throw the baby out with the bathwater just because of a few missed translation points. Thanks Phlabibit.
I believe the Bible was written in Aramaic and translated to Greek. Greeks didn't have a word for "several" or "many" so they threw the number 40 in there figuring that was quite a lot.
Eventually the Bible was translated to English losing much of it's true meaning through 2 translations at least, plus the people in power at the time deciding what some ...[text shortened]... nslation waters down or exaggerates the original idea depending on the translator.
P-
24 Aug 07
Originally posted by Red Nightyup, that's the one.
Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more;
Or close the wall up with our English dead.
In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
As modest stillness and humility:
But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
Then imitate the action of the tiger;
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favour'd rage;
Then len ...[text shortened]...
Follow your spirit, and upon this charge
Cry 'God for Harry, England, and Saint George
24 Aug 07
Originally posted by PhlabibitSorry, no the new testament was written in greek, and the old testament in chaldean, and hebrew
I believe the Bible was written in Aramaic and translated to Greek. Greeks didn't have a word for "several" or "many" so they threw the number 40 in there figuring that was quite a lot.
Eventually the Bible was translated to English losing much of it's true meaning through 2 translations at least, plus the people in power at the time deciding what some ...[text shortened]... nslation waters down or exaggerates the original idea depending on the translator.
P-