General
11 Jan 18
17 Jan 18
Originally posted by @divegeesterIt’s just an example of a damaging early developmental history. I think it’s important to remember that infants, through no fault of their own, are shaped into criminals over a period of time. If prison is the only time that society has ever taken an interest in them then they deserve a chance to be helped to change. I’m not in agreement with your idea of treating a certain group of offenders in exactly the same way and locking them up for ever. That was seen as the only solution for people with severe mental illness and abandoned children with learning disabilities in the Victorian era yet look how far things have improved for them.
It is not clear from your post (as you have decided not to say) whether or not you are trying to correlate the abusive upbringing of Jon Venables with his crimes as a child, and/or his repeated crimes of holding child sex pornograpy as an adult, for which his lengthy and published period of “rehabilitation” and subsequent release with a completely fresh ...[text shortened]... /nov/23/james-bulger-killer-jon-venables-back-in-jail-after-being-caught-with-abuse-images-again
17 Jan 18
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Originally posted by @drewnogalDrew, I like what you say and I agree. If I had been able to express your views as part of my own post, it would have been in line with how I feel.
It’s just an example of a damaging early developmental history. I think it’s important to remember that infants, through no fault of their own, are shaped into criminals over a period of time. If prison is the only time that society has ever taken an interest in them then they deserve a chance to be helped to change. I’m not in agreement with your idea o ...[text shortened]... with learning disabilities in the Victorian era yet look how far things have improved for them.
Prison is a way to deal with dangerous individuals when things have gone too far and no - or insufficient - help has been provided earlier.
Originally posted by @drewnogalI think you are missing the point and conflating multiple issues. The offender in the OP (and the offender in my link about the 100 times rapist who's release is being reviewed by the UK chief justice) were adults when they committed their offenses (not juveniles like Jon Venables), furthermore it is irrelevant how the offender in the OP came to be the child murderer that he is, the fact is that he abducted, raped and murdered a little girl, period. This is probably considered one of the most heinous crimes a person can commit and it's execution is driven from an uncontrolled sexual compulsion which is a severe mental disease and one which renders him a danger to society. There is no evidence that he has an abusive upbringing and even if there was, so what? He still needs to be locked up for life. Whilst I appreciate the need for the penal system to recognise and support the rehabilitation of those people who would benefit, if I'm honest I find your seeking mitigation in this way for this man a little tawdry and incongruent with this specific crime and circumstances.
It’s just an example of a damaging early developmental history. I think it’s important to remember that infants, through no fault of their own, are shaped into criminals over a period of time. If prison is the only time that society has ever taken an interest in them then they deserve a chance to be helped to change. I’m not in agreement with your idea o ...[text shortened]... with learning disabilities in the Victorian era yet look how far things have improved for them.
Originally posted by @divegeesterFor some reason a number of forensic professionals have decided to put their jobs on the line and have made a decision to consider him for a civil commitment which would mean that he would be regularly assessed by an outpatient psychiatric outpatient unit at the minimum. You speak as if you have more experience upon the subject than they do and are also being dismissive of them having acquired a 43 year profile upon him since his prison sentence.
I think you are missing the point and conflating multiple issues. The offender in the OP (and the offender in my link about the 100 times rapist who's release is being reviewed by the UK chief justice) were adults when they committed their offenses (not juveniles like Jon Venables), furthermore it is irrelevant how the offender in the OP came to be the ...[text shortened]... his way for this man a little tawdry and incongruent with this specific crime and circumstances.
18 Jan 18
Originally posted by @drewnogalI doubt very much that thier “jobs are on the line” as you suggest but that’s you being a little dramatic to support your position here, which at best is a little odd but objectively looks quite flakey and a little revealing of you, to me.
For some reason a number of forensic professionals have decided to put their jobs on the line and have made a decision to consider him for a civil commitment which would mean that he would be regularly assessed by an outpatient psychiatric outpatient unit at the minimum. You speak as if you have more experience upon the subject than they do and are also being dismissive of them having acquired a 43 year profile upon him since his prison sentence.
You feel feel that a man who abducted a little girl, raped her and asphyxiated her should be released and of course you are entitled to your opinion.
Originally posted by @divegeesterNo.
You feel feel that a man who abducted a little girl, raped her and asphyxiated her should be released and of course you are entitled to your opinion.
drewnogal is saying that the professionals involved feel that a man who
abducted a little girl, raped her and asphyxiated her should be released.
Her opinion is that we should respect their decision unless
you are privy to extra information that we and they are not.
Originally posted by @wolfgang59Did she PM you information so you could post on her behalf. The pair of you are both supporting this man’s release, I am not, and for good cause. I don’t give any credence to the “professionals” opinion in this matter any more than the UK government and the opposition party seem to give credence to the “professionals” who want to realease a man who raped over 100 women.
No.
drewnogal is saying that the professionals involved feel that a man who
abducted a little girl, raped her and asphyxiated her should be released.
Her opinion is that we should respect their decision unless
you are privy to extra information that we and they are not.
If drewnogal doesn’t think the child sex murderer should be released then please come out and say so on her behalf. That you and drewnogal trust the “professionals” judgment in this matter is not of much interest to me other than it reveals something about you and her that I find somewhat disappointing.
Originally posted by @divegeesterHow can we expect a man to live a normal life if he has raped a hundred women, and what happens if he doesn't? If a hundred raped women isn't enough to keep him locked up, then how many does it take?
Did she PM you information so you could post on her behalf. The pair of you are both supporting this man’s release, I am not, and for good cause. I don’t give any credence to the “professionals” opinion in this matter any more than the UK government and the opposition party seem to give credence to the “professionals” who want to realease a man who rape ...[text shortened]... rest to me other than it reveals something about you and her that I find somewhat disappointing.
Rape isn't about sex, it's about power.
Originally posted by @torunnhttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/19/ministers-abandon-legal-bid-block-release-black-cab-rapist-john/
How can we expect a man to live a normal life if he has raped a hundred women, and what happens if he doesn't? If a hundred raped women isn't enough to keep him locked up, then how many does it take?
Rape isn't about sex, it's about power.
The government have apparently dropped thier legal bid to keep this monster locked up but the Major of London is considering a challenge as I believe the Labour Party are, or at least were.
Wolfgang59 and drewnogal will no doubt be along shortly to explain how wrong both sides of the House of Commons are to question the “professionals” and attempt to impinge upon this poor mans liberty. I’m sure he was smacked and shouted at as a child, so we should make allowances I suppose.
Everyone has bad stuff in their lives. It's absolutely no excuse whatsover for a crime such as rape. I can understand that if your child was starving, you would steal for food. I certainly would. Nevertheless, people go through much worse than what many rapists go through and they turn out all right. It is a choice to rape and kill someone, it has no benefits to anyone, whereas I can see why someone would steal.
I don't have a daughter (being 19, this is not yet on the agenda) but I want the world to be safe when I do have one. South Africa has so much rape it's hardly eventful. Every second week some poor girl is found in a ditch, and as a nation, we have to deal with that all the time and being exposed to the victim's stories.
If you rape someone, you don't deserve a second chance. It's too much of a risk to other people. You lost your right to a second chance when you raped and murdered someone's child.
Bring back the death penalty.
19 Jan 18
Originally posted by @ashiitakaThanks for your input, but I’m not sure I agree with this. It’s a highly emotive topic especially when a child has been murdered, but I can’t align with the taking of a life as a punishment. I just think our penitentiaries and the system within it should accommodate these people appropriately.
Bring back the death penalty.
Having said that, if it was my daughter I strongly suspect that I would hunt the man down and beat him to death with my bare hands, or find a way to get at him via someone within in his prison.
Originally posted by @divegeesterIf someone raped and murdered my sister I doubt I could show them any mercy if I saw them.
Thanks for your input, but I’m not sure I agree with this. It’s a highly emotive topic especially when a child has been murdered, but I can’t align with the taking of a life as a punishment. I just think our penitentiaries and the system within it should accommodate these people appropriately.
Having said that, if it was my daughter I strongly suspe ...[text shortened]... t him to death with my bare hands, or find a way to get at him via someone within in his prison.
I think there are benefits to the death penalty. Not going to get into it now though...
Originally posted by @divegeesterWhy not just express your own opinions instead of second guessing those of others?
Wolfgang59 and drewnogal will no doubt be along shortly to explain how wrong both sides of the House of Commons are to question the “professionals” and attempt to impinge upon this poor mans liberty. I’m sure he was smacked and shouted at as a child, so we should make allowances I suppose.