Originally posted by wormwoodI know the priests aren't doing their jobs. English longbowmen just don't seem as dominant as they used to be.
you don't?
"All English males over the age 14 are to carry out 2 or so hours of longbow practice a week supervised by the local clergy. "
http://www.dumblaws.com/law/1046
is rampant drive-by archery a big problem over there?
Originally posted by SquelchbelchThe right to bear arms is necessary to the security of a free State. The individual needs to be able to defend himself and his loved ones, whether in formal battle as a militia or by guerrilla action. Governments can go out of control. The military or the police can turn on us. Or, in the case of Los Angeles, the problem is so bad the police can only keep the violence down; they can't stop it. The problem is even worse in England where the individual cannot arm himself.
It just seems to make things worse as far as I can see.
Also, the right to bear arms is a historic relic that was meant to protect 18th century English colonial settlers who in turn had hijacked it from 11th century English law to protect Protestants from being dis-armed in the times of Henry II.
You do of course legally have the right to own a gu ack.
I'm so glad we don't have any crazy legislation like that over here (any longer)😉
Or the Russians or terrorists might nuke the hell out of the country and we'd have to protect ourselves.
Originally posted by AThousandYoungThat's the whole point of my reasoning.
The problem is even worse in England where the individual cannot arm himself.
Or the Russians or terrorists might nuke the hell out of the country and we'd have to protect ourselves.
According to any statistics the problem is comparatively nowhere near as bad in England as in the States, mostly because we don't have widespread ownership of guns!
As for your government going out of control; they seem to have controlled you pretty well making you a paranoid nation playing on your massively over-exaggerated fears.
For God's sake show some backbone!
We had the IRA bombing all over the place in the 70's/80's & early 90's both in mainland UK & in N. Ireland.
I was on the London underground a few days after the recent extremist Islamist bombings - so what, life goes on.
Originally posted by SquelchbelchThe government has done nothing without the consent of the people.
That's the whole point of my reasoning.
According to any statistics the problem is comparatively nowhere near as bad in England as in the States, mostly because we don't have widespread ownership of guns!
As for your government going out of control; they seem to have controlled you pretty well making you a paranoid nation playing on your massively o derground a few days after the recent extremist Islamist bombings - so what, life goes on.
What's the "problem" you're referring to? The one I'm referring to is violent crime. That one's worse in England than in the US.
Ok, i am replying to a number of people here, but primarily sicillian smaug as he instigated the argument that there is a serious crime problem in estates, etc..
We are the looking at the results, NOT the cause! If you look at the psychological history politics and business over the 20th century, as Adam Curtis does extensively in his two documentaries below, it is clear to me that our society is suffering the after effects of the Cold War mentality of systematic distrust of our fellow human beings...
(4 part documentary "The Century of the Self" )
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8953172273825999151
(5 part documentary "The Trap", see here for Cold war reference)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8372545413887273321
The media, largely under the influence of Big business, but also at the will of government has educated the general public into a World view that has been largely based on propaganda. Our Society has been manipulated over the last 100 years or so by vested interest groups. We live in a society that values above all else the acquisition of material wealth. Curtis is astute at pointing out that prior to our media age, people bought things based on whether they needed them. Over the course of the 20th century we have been conditioned to want things we don't necessarily need. All of the people who have partaken in this conversation have grown up in this system and are probably unaware that our desires are largely not inherent in the human condition but have been fostered into our psyche by TV who receive money from Industry to affect our group consciousness. I'm not just talking about advertising here (see Curtis, he makes the point better than i ever could).
Looking at the problems we see with Crime at our present time, i see these things as the result of this manipulation.
A kid on a poor council estate grows up watching affluent people on TV wearing all kinds of designer clothes, watches, etc.., driving expensive cars, living in palatial mansions, etc... is fostered with the outlook that he/she is a somehow unsuccessful if they don't acquire these things!
It is because of this 'acquisitional' mind programming that these kids feel completely excluded from the system. How many gangs of kids do you see wearing designer clothes? When i was in college, i knew a number of kids who'd go around mugging people, etc.. What did they spend the money on? Looking like fu-cking snoop dog!
Policing these kids does not bring them into society, it excludes them. I totally accept that the point i'm making here does nothing to excuse their actions, their crimes have victims and i despair that this is the case. However, if our society was inclusive and the media spent less time separating us into 'us and them' groups, things could be very different. We have been collectively reprogrammed into selfish consumer robots, by stereotyping these kids in news bulletins, we are conditioned to fear these groups rather than ask questions about why they do the things they do!
By increasing the number of Police on the streets, we are NOT fighting the cause! How is it that we can live in one of the most affluent societies on Earth yet we have run down council estates packed full of kids who have little or no hope of ever getting out? A kid living in a damp ridden council hovel is constantly bombarded with a pictures of well dressed, rich celebrities. These are your heroes, look what they're wearing! See what car they're driving!!
Going back to the media (which was the original starting point of this thread), we only EVER hear the negative side of the story!!! Look at all this MONEY that is being spent policing these estates, how much is spent MAKING THEM BETTER! Why do we band all these poor people under the band of 'Criminal' when the simple fact of the matter is they're living in a consumer society where they are unable to consume? Like i said before, if you're not consuming, you are consumed. These kids are trained to want want want and want some more. You could stick a policeman on the corner of every street but if the media continues to poison the minds of our youth and detract from the real problem (we are getting rich and ignoring everyone else) this status quo will never change!
End of rant. 😛
Originally posted by AThousandYoungyeah right! you're gonna take on the police and/or the army.
The right to bear arms is necessary to the security of a free State. The individual needs to be able to defend himself and his loved ones, whether in formal battle as a militia or by guerrilla action. Governments can go out of control. The military or the police can turn on us. Or, in the case of Los Angeles, the problem is so bad the police can o ...[text shortened]... sians or terrorists might nuke the hell out of the country and we'd have to protect ourselves.
The funny thing is, the more loopy the State goes, the more the gun slingers tend to support it anyway. Don't kid yourself.
I have some sympathy with the idea that, dumb though it might be, the current situation in the US is that people equate liberty with their right to own guns and therefore banning them is an erosion of civil liberty.
However, the idea that they do anything except promote violence is, in my view, nonsense.
Originally posted by AThousandYoungSorry missed these two gems.
The problem is even worse in England where the individual cannot arm himself.
Or the Russians or terrorists might nuke the hell out of the country and we'd have to protect ourselves.
Violent crime in the UK and particularly gun crime is way lower than the US and, contrary to popular belief fares well against the rest of Europe too.
You get nuked by "The Russians", "The Terrorist", "The Bogey Man de Jour" and you're going to shoot at them with your pop gun?
Originally posted by Marinkatombpsychoanysts, you've just gotta love their wacky logic. like that the reason why ordinary people joined into the madness in nazi germany was the lack of conformity to the society. that an individual thinker is susceptible to totalitarian rule, where as a conforming one is not!! 😀 their solution to the problem was to force conformity on little children, so that they'll have the 'correct' conforming mindset when they grow up. -sounds like exactly what the nazis were doing. 🙂
(4 part documentary "The Century of the Self" )
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8953172273825999151
another hilarious example: the psychoanalysts thought people were inherently irrational, and because of that incapable of democracy. to a less arrogant thinker the fact that a theory which portrays as irrational the reality it's supposed to describe, would in fact suggest the theory being wrong. 🙂 anyway, their solution to this one, was that an elite of psychoanalysts should use unconscious mind-controlling techniques to manipulate the masses, to achieve 'democracy'.
it just cracks me up! 😀
Originally posted by WheelyIf the police made a habit of raping my mother, sister and nephew, yeah I think I'd be willing to do a bit of sniping. You never know.
yeah right! you're gonna take on the police and/or the army.
The funny thing is, the more loopy the State goes, the more the gun slingers tend to support it anyway. Don't kid yourself.
I have some sympathy with the idea that, dumb though it might be, the current situation in the US is that people equate liberty with their right to own guns and therefo ...[text shortened]... .
However, the idea that they do anything except promote violence is, in my view, nonsense.
Also, if there were some sort of craziness leading to the police and/or military turning on the public, there would be elements of the military and/or police who opposed them.
Look at Iraq and Vietnam.
Originally posted by WheelyNo, violent crime in the UK is far worse than in the US.
Sorry missed these two gems.
Violent crime in the UK and particularly gun crime is way lower than the US and, contrary to popular belief fares well against the rest of Europe too.
You get nuked by "The Russians", "The Terrorist", "The Bogey Man de Jour" and you're going to shoot at them with your pop gun?
In the middle of March 1998 the third International Crime Victimisation Survey (ICVS) was quietly published. Its findings were quite shocking, it revealed that the highest incidence of violent crime in the industrialised world was in England and Wales. The Home Office submission to the Cullen enquiry was based upon the previous ICVS but the publication of this report received little attention.
Now that its mid October it appears the British media has finally woken up and smelt the coffee, several national papers and major TV networks have covered the story following the publication of a US Department of Justice report. The report, echoing the ICVS, shows that you are more likely to be mugged in England and Wales than in the US. Many American cities are now safer than they were 10 years ago, in Britain inner city crime continues to rise. The report also reveals that the criminal justice system in Britain is much worse at detecting and prosecuting criminals than its US counterpart.
http://members.aol.com/gunbancon/Frames/Crime.html
If we get nuked, I think I'd be more concerned about protecting my family against ghetto trash than against people on another continent. I remember the Rodney King riots.
Originally posted by AThousandYounghow about if a militia or just private citizens exercising their right to bear arms made a habit of raping your mother, sister and nephew? would you still think it was a good thing they're armed to their teeth? there's a good reason why the 'wild west' was tamed with law.
If the police made a habit of raping my mother, sister and nephew, yeah I think I'd be willing to do a bit of sniping. You never know.
at least the police has some training of how to act in a conflict instead of just watching westerns and jerry springer.
I myself far prefer that not just any random lunatic can have firearms. the crazy lady upstairs shouting every day at imaginary demons, the young guy next door who wants to beat up every wino on sight, and the winos living across the road, not to mention the druggies that are a bit unstable even without owning guns. me having a piece wouldn't really make it all cancel itself out.
Originally posted by wormwoodI'd snipe them too. However the police would grab them pretty quick.
how about if a militia or just private citizens exercising their right to bear arms made a habit of raping your mother, sister and nephew? would you still think it was a good thing they're armed to their teeth? there's a good reason why the 'wild west' was tamed with law.
at least the police has some training of how to act in a conflict instead of just w ...[text shortened]... even without owning guns. me having a piece wouldn't really make it all cancel itself out.
The wild west was never totally tamed. I live in LA and I see violence fairly regularly, but NEVER with a real gun. Once I was threatened with a fake gun. I fought them but I was so scared my strikes weren't doing any damage.
Next time I'll make sure to get enraged and cripple the bastards.
Originally posted by wormwoodYou better hope you never get a Rodney King style riot over there. Without firearms my aunt would be been incinerated due to arson.
how about if a militia or just private citizens exercising their right to bear arms made a habit of raping your mother, sister and nephew? would you still think it was a good thing they're armed to their teeth? there's a good reason why the 'wild west' was tamed with law.
at least the police has some training of how to act in a conflict instead of just w ...[text shortened]... even without owning guns. me having a piece wouldn't really make it all cancel itself out.