Originally posted by ETeachAnd that means that america is "socialistic"? Point me in the direction where I can read about your taxes being used to try to equalise the gap between the rich and the poor.
Respectfully , no. In 2001 my company I worked for went out of buisness. I had contributed to the 401k to the tune of 30,000 grand. After much debate I used that money to buy my first home for my family. During the year I "contributed" $5,543.00 in withholding tax. After paying the huge penalty up front for burning the IRA, along with the taxes the feds too ...[text shortened]... ad to pay an additional $4,500 dollars in taxes. Total combined for that year around $12,000.
If anything, your country is becoming more fascistic every day. Do a search for Laurence Britt's study on fascism, and you'll note that america exhibits all of the characteristics of a fascist country, eg: Fierce nationalism, disdain for human rights, identification of enemy as unifying cause, supremacy of the military, controlled mass media, obsession with national security, etc.
Your, I'm guessing middle class, money is being taken off you to pay billions of dollars to rich people, under the pretense of 'national security'. I can assure you my friend, that america is as far away from socialism as it gets.
This is in answer to arrakis' initial post as well. America hasn't changed that whole pile in over 100 years. You should both do a bit of reading (not his biography) up on JP Morgan, the ultimate capitalist. Here's a post I wrote which may be relevant to you both...
http://www.timeforchess.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=14095
Top, top, top recommendation goes to 'The Culture of Make Believe' by Derrick Jensen.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1931498571/qid=1113757775/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/102-3537080-9488119?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
Also, as I recommended to you ETeach a couple of days ago, Howard Zinn's history books should open your eyes a bit as well.
D
Also Rag, if you have time, its pretty old but "Freedom" by William Safire is an excellent read on the Civil War and the politics within. It's history written as a novel.Will read them both.... I do have open mind unlike most hardcore facist...(toungue in cheek) and hope to consider you as a friend.
How can you call redistribution of wealth, which is the case of most social programs, redressing the gap between rich and poor? Don't get me wrong, I do think there are ALOT of overpaid worthless people at the top. It makes no sense to me much of the time.
"Property is the fruit of labor...property is desirable...is a positive good in the world. That some should be rich shows that others may become rich, and hence is just encouragement to industry and enterprise. Let not him who is houseless pull down the house of another; but let him labor diligently and build one for himself, thus by example assuring that his own shall be safe from violence when built."
Abraham Lincoln 1864.
Maybe I'm a bit naive but I still believe in this.
Originally posted by chancremechanicYou get a rec for that. But I'm afraid it will take much less than 50 years... The way things are going I'd say only 5-10 more years. 😳
The republicans won't do anything about the 12,000,000 illegal immigrants because they represent cheap labor for the big companies, which in turn line the pockets of George, Dick & Company...jobs get outsourced to India, factories relocate to Mexico and China in order for the CEOs to make an even bigger profit...I'm afraid that in 50 years or less there will be two Americas: Rich and poor....middleclass is getting squeezed to death....
I have felt for a while that the GOP in the US has been hijacked by a particularly loathsome sect, named politely the neocons. Since this sect has been able to bring success to their party, the party has followed along; however, that decision may be at best pyrrhic, quite possibly Faustian, as the takeover has betrayed many of the values ostenisbly supported by the GOP.
The method of establishing success for the GOP has been no less duplicitious. This group of villianous, murderous, treacherous scum has sold their much-vaunted "base" of constituents a cosmic lottery ticket- selling them the notion that they, and they alone, promise some chance for joining their elitist class of wealth and power. The neocons have successfully beaten the drums of war, both foreign and domestic, to instill an unthinking fear against a host of strawmen and scapegoats, and by that fear (and when the fear doesn't work, through voting 'irregularities'😉 they reap enough support to gain control of the government. By beating back the enemies of the nation, both foreign and domestic, they maintain that they and they alone can create the chance for the 'other classes'- the middle class and the impoverished- to ascend to their shining greatness.
The thing is, though, that the works of the necons, do everything to eliminate that possibility. They seek to make the obscenely wealthy and powerful MORE wealthy and powerful, at the expense of the support structures which enable the impoverished and middle classes to aspire to improving their socio-economic lot in life. A classic example of this is the manner in which they have recreated the estate tax into the 'death tax'. By turning the idle rich into 'victims', they appeal to end the alleged injustice of a system designed to keep the nation from descending into a corporate plutocracy. On the floor of Congress this week, the estate tax was decried as a disincentive to work and success, when in fact repealing the estate taxes ENABLES the emergence of a class of elite, idle, non-productive rich, full of power and with no understanding of responsibility. The expense of this repeal is compensated by the classes who do not and cannot enjoy that luxury- it comes off the backs of the lower classes.
The corporations in the US have become too powerful. When the articles of corporation were originally constructed, the corporation was to serve a specific purpose for the common good, at the discretion of the public. The corporation could not take part in politics- corporations were barred from donating to political campaigns and lobbying; violating these laws were grounds for dissolving the corporation. A series of judicial decisions have eroded away these key protective factors, and the nation has consequently reaped a situation in which the corporate has grown wealthy and powerful enough to dictate legislation to their own benefit, powerful enough to enact punitive rules and exempt themselves from those rules.
Still, they enjoy the control they do by simply offering the seductive lie that they and they alone offer the possibility to join their ranks.
Originally posted by Chef GaneshaI agree with everything you say. Although, your message makes for easier reading to the members if you put a few paragraphs in with open lines once in awhile. 🙂
I have felt for a while that the GOP in the US has been hijacked by a particularly loathsome sect, named politely the neocons. Since this sect has been able to bring success to their party, the party has followed along; however, that decision may be at best pyrrhic, quite possibly Faustian, as the takeover has betrayed many of the values ostenisbly supp ...[text shortened]... offering the seductive lie that they and they alone offer the possibility to join their ranks.
Sorry 'bout that. I didn't think about formatting issues when posting here, as I am relatively new to posting in these forums.
I am including here a link for a fairly thought-provoking piece, which touches on some of the themes raised in this thread: http://www.rationalrevolution.net/articles/rise_of_american_fascism.htm
Is this not class warfare? What right does the government have to someones estate after they die? If I won the lottery tommorow why shouldn't I be able to give my estate to whomever I please? How can anyone agree with what amounts to a bill of attainder? In the days of aristocracy's the government would take ENTIRE estates in this manner. The more power you hand over to the powers that be, here or anywhere, its only a matter of time before they eventually come for you. Only government has the power to, by force, take what they have not earned. I find it facinating that more and more people seem to think it is a good thing!!
As I see it, the GOP has had a list of things on their agenda that they've wanted to change for some time. So George W Bush has been forcing all these issues thru Congress. In some cases he's even bribed members of Congress by giving them millions of dollars in pork packages.
What ever happened to the elected members who are SUPPOSED to represent the citizens who elected them!?
Originally posted by arrakisThat died out ages ago, its just becoming a bit more obvious now, due to more media channels.
What ever happened to the elected members who are SUPPOSED to represent the citizens who elected them!?
Here's something you'll probably enjoy arrakis.
How to f up everything you touch, and still win an american presidential election...
http://geekt.org/gopconstrm.mov
D
Originally posted by arrakisSadly, a true democrasy, where the majority's opinion on every bill and act passed counts, cannot exist effetively IMO. This would require every voting citizen to know the full social and economic implications of the act to be passed. In short this would mean the majority of them would need degrees or at least diplomas in politics.
As I see it, the GOP has had a list of things on their agenda that they've wanted to change for some time. So George W Bush has been forcing all these issues thru Congress. In some cases he's even bribed members of Congress by giving them millions of dollars in pork packages.
What ever happened to the elected members who are SUPPOSED to represent the citizens who elected them!?
I know what you're are saying though. It would be nice to listened to once in a while. Just once.............
Originally posted by jimslyp69I always find it funny that america sells itself as being the greatest democracy on the planet, and invades other countries to spread this great democracy, but america is probably the worst example of democracy that exists.
Sadly, a true democrasy,
Firstly, its not even a democracy, its an oligarchy. Secondly, as happened last year, 49.9% of the public are now represented by the a party supposedly the opposite of who they voted for.
I say supposedly the opposite, because IMHO, both dems and reps exist for the large corporations. The party line is just that, trying to get votes. Reps got lucky with being landed with people who will vote for you even when u illegally kill hundreds of thousands of people, so long as you invoke the name of god when you do it... the bible beltarians.
D
I was informed from one of my opponents who lives in London:
"I hope you get your pension,i haven't got one (well i froze it) the other war monger Blair took 5 Billion pounds out of our pension funds (private ones) just at the time the stock market dropped dramatically,i just can't put enough in to catch up i'm looking at other ways of saving for the future."
Sooo, the war mongers, Bush and Blair are affecting most of us here at RHP! Any comments?