28 Jul 03
Originally posted by CrowleyNo doubt we could have fielded a better wet weather team which might have beaten the English on the night - but what's the point? there was nothing riding on the game and no reason to practise wet weather rugby in preparation for November. No excuses for the loss, England deserved to win on the day, but it was far from clear cut (unlike the AB's last two games). Mitchell's aim during the England/Wales/France matches was to identify/confirm the world cup squad and now during the Tri-nations he's building the combinations. All of this is aimed at winning in November and to achieve this he was prepared for the odd loss along the way.
Aah, at last we got a New Zealander in the discussion...
The conditions did suit England more, but that is not an excuse. A professional outfit should be able to play in any weather conditions.
That said, without a good goalkicker in your side, you're asking for trouble. Maybe Daniel Carter is the solution.
I'm not saying we should be clear favorites to win (though I hear the English bookies now have the ABs as favorites), merely that anyone who thinks that the English victory over NZ in Wellington gives any sort of indication as to how the teams will fare in November is dreaming. Spencer is a better goal kicker than he's shown to date and I think he'll do well in the WC - but if he's off form then Mitchell will have Carter, Mauger, Blair and possibly McDonald or Mehrtens to choose from provided they all sign the contracts..........
28 Jul 03
Originally posted by emjay58From what I read there is no reason to doubt that the ABs should be favourite, they are playing some fantastic rugby. As for the nothing riding on the game I have to disagree - for the English there was a huge amount riding on the game - Could we be the SH teams in their own backyard - Could we adapt our play to different conditions (does it never rain in Aus in Oct-Nov?). I have no doubt that had england lost against the ABs, people would have been writing them off and morale could well have dropped enough to lose against the Aussies. Ask any All Black did it hurt to lose v England I'm sure it did. What I think this does do is set up for an exciting WC 2 favourites to reach the final but many teams able to cause an upset - I'm glad Argentina isn't in our group!
No doubt we could have fielded a better wet weather team which might have beaten the English on the night - but what's the point? there was nothing riding on the game and no reason to practise wet weather rugby in preparation for November. No excuses for the loss, England deserved to win on the day, but it was far from clear cut (unlike the AB's last two ...[text shortened]... and possibly McDonald or Mehrtens to choose from provided they all sign the contracts..........
28 Jul 03
Originally posted by CrowleyMehrtens is coming back into form and could make it to the WC. He can certainly take the pressuse and kicks as well at test level as at provincial or S12 - something Spencer has not yet managed. Blair is possibly the best kicker we have and would have been on the AB bench if he had not been injured for the first part of this year.
Hell, I think he should stick with Carter... Mehrtens is out of form and I've not seen any of those other players ever take a goal kick.
I like Carter a lot, however it would be a big call to leave out Spencer or Mauger from the starting side in a big match at this stage in his (Carter's) career.
28 Jul 03
Originally posted by Mat KelleyWhat I meant was that there were no points to be earned that carried through to the World Cup - obviously each team wants to win each game and they hate to lose. But many of us here feel that Mitchell was right to keep the goal of building for the WC in mind when he chose the team for the England match rather than to put a side on the field that was specifically designed to play England on a cold wet night.
..... As for the nothing riding on the game I have to disagree - for the English there was a huge amount riding on the game - Could we be the SH teams in their own backyard....
..... Could we adapt our play to different conditions (does it never rain in Aus in Oct-Nov?).
I don't see what you mean here - conditions on the night were an exact copy of what the English players had been playing in for the past 6 months - what's different about that? The weather in Sydney on 22/11 will be fine and warm - this I know for sure.
I have no doubt that had england lost against the ABs, people would have been writing them off and morale could well have dropped enough to lose against the Aussies.
There's no way anyone here would have written off the English if they'd lost by 2 points - but I guess you mean the English press.
[b] Ask any All Black did it hurt to lose v England I'm sure it did. What I think this does do is set up for an exciting WC 2 favourites to reach the final but many teams able to cause an upset - I'm glad Argentina isn't in our group [b]
Amen to all of this.
I guess I could go on like this for a while but unfortunately I have to do some work.
cheers
Martin
29 Jul 03
Originally posted by emjay58The weather in Sydney question was an honest one I do not know if it rains in Sydney in the months of October and November.
What I meant was that there were no points to be earned that carried through to the World Cup - obviously each team wants to win each game and they hate to lose. But many of us here feel that Mitchell was right to keep the goal of building for the WC in mind when he chose the team for the England match rather than to put a side on the field that was specifi ...[text shortened]... I could go on like this for a while but unfortunately I have to do some work.
cheers
Martin
I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong but I cannot remember the last time England played a game in the conditions witnessed in NZ. They had dry matches in last year autmn internationals and the 6 nations. Sure we play in those conditions occasionally at club level but contrary to popular belief it doesn't always rain in England😀
The English press are sods they build players and teams up just so the knock them down, occassionally justifiably but not often, so yes I meant the English press.
Mat
29 Jul 03
Originally posted by latex bishopPhew, thanks for the save.
you beat us 3-1 at football which is about as unacceptable as had you lost the test series 3-1!!! 😀
Yes, even to us beating you at soccer came as a huge shock. You guys did try to wiggle out of it by saying that your main team only played one half, but I seem to remember that your second grade side actually performed better. Still...it would be nice to beat someone in the rugby besides the Welsh.
29 Jul 03
Originally posted by Mat KelleyHehe, I've read some stuff the English press wrote about a struggling sports team, they don't hold back...
The English press are sods they build players and teams up just so the knock them down
But have you ever heard the SA press and public when our rugby side doesn't perform - it's ugly.