So, it turns out that the Florida Shooter was Gay

Originally posted by josephw
I used the term "disturbed" to describe homosexuality. I don't get a charge out of that. But there are many forms of disturbances that effect many. Some become pedaphiles, others murderers, thieves, liars, and on and on it goes.

I would have thought that pedophiles, murderers, thieves, and liars [perjurers?] might all deserve punishment according to the law and perhaps spells in gaol. Are you sure that you feel it's right to place homosexuals on a list that includes people who most people would agree were criminals?

Originally posted by josephw
I guess you just can't help yourself since the musings of man are the only source of authority you have. Can't you see what a media/pop culture lackey you are? You're standing on shifting sand. When the wind of reality blows, and it will, everything you think is right and true, that which you have made abundantly clear, will become as nothing.

I find your self-subordination to a supernatural God figure to whom you attribute "authority" to be an entirely subjective thing for you to to do.

Not being a member of your religion, I perceive the ancient Hebrew mythology and related-literature that you subscribe to to be "the musings of man". There is absolutely no evidence to the contrary.

Would you be able to act in a morally sound way if you didn't have your religion?

Originally posted by FMF
In fact, I think that you [b]did call the kettle black on this thread but that you have since then back peddled in a certain amount of disarray - and you don't "have the balls" to acknowledge that that is what you have done. You condemned homosexuals several times on page 7 of this thread. By page 11 you were already denying it.[/b]

Give it up. You're not going to fool me with that subterfuge. And I'm not going to accept your accusation.

See how you turn it around and obfuscate the topic of discussion? Your imagination has gotten the best of you. I mean, since you disavow the need for accountability by denying God His due, that's all you really have. Isn't it?

Are you going to accuse me of condemning you too?

Originally posted by FMF
I find your self-subordination to a supernatural God figure to whom you attribute "authority" to be an entirely subjective thing for you to to do.

Not being a member of your religion, I perceive the ancient Hebrew mythology and related-literature that you subscribe to to be "the musings of man". There is absolutely no evidence to the contrary.

Would you be able to act in a morally sound way if you didn't have your religion?

"I find your self-subordination to a supernatural God figure to whom you attribute "authority" to be an entirely subjective thing for you to to do."

Subjective or not, I of my own free will subjugate myself to the absolute authority of my maker, "the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;" Jesus Christ.

That much you got right!


"Not being a member of your religion, I perceive the ancient Hebrew mythology and related-literature that you subscribe to to be "the musings of man". There is absolutely no evidence to the contrary."

Your choice. But pure BS.

"Would you be able to act in a morally sound way if you didn't have your religion?"

It is quite difficult. I'll never attain perfection in this life. Anyone that says they can or has is a liar.

What about you? You pointed the finger. Have you arrived? Do you think you ever will be good enough? What does "morally sound" mean to you? Good enough maybe?

God's standard is perfection. Something no man can achieve by himself.

Originally posted by josephw
Are you going to accuse me of condemning you too?

On page 7 of this thread, you condemned homosexuals explicitly. You condemned them for their lack of moral convictions.

Originally posted by josephw
It is quite difficult. I'll never attain perfection in this life. Anyone that says they can or has is a liar.

If these words of your are supposed to be an answer to the question "Would you be able to act in a morally sound way if you didn't have your religion?" I don't see how they are. Without your religious code and literature would you have no way of knowing how to act in a morally sound way?

Originally posted by FMF
I would have thought that pedophiles, murderers, thieves, and liars [perjurers?] might all deserve punishment according to the law and perhaps spells in gaol. Are you sure that you feel it's right to place homosexuals on a list that includes people who most people would agree were criminals?

If it was illegal to commit homosexual acts, would you place homosexuals on the list of people considered criminal?

If most people considered homosexuality criminal would you join the crowd in condemning the criminality of homosexuality?

I think you would since it is the crowd, a small minority, that you are aligning yourself with now.

What's preventing you from joining the majority of the human race that condemns homosexuality? Is it your superior intellect?

Originally posted by josephw
[What about you? You pointed the finger. Have you arrived? Do you think you ever will be good enough? What does "morally sound" mean to you? Good enough maybe?

God's standard is perfection. Something no man can achieve by himself.

I don't see how I have "pointed the finger"? Which bit of what I said are you referring to?

I certainly endeavour to live my life in a morally sound way - to try not to damage others, not to deceive them, and not to coerce them, and to try to navigate my way through the complexities of life while transgressing these principles as infrequently as possible and to always exercise empathy - I am sure we are alike in this respect.

Do I think I will ever be good enough? Well, I have to ask: good enough for what?

Originally posted by FMF
If these words of your are supposed to be an answer to the question "Would you be able to act in a morally sound way if you didn't have your religion?" I don't see how they are. Without your religious code and literature would you have no way of knowing how to act in a morally sound way?

How do you know how to act in a morally sound way?

Odd how you can talk out of both sides of your mouth.

Suddenly without my so-called man made religion I wouldn't be able to know the difference between right and wrong, but since you're above it all you do?

Originally posted by josephw
If it was illegal to commit homosexual acts, would you place homosexuals on the list of people considered criminal?

I would oppose such a law and I like to think I would give assistance to those trying to avoid being repressed by it. I hope I would do the same to Christians under a regime that sought to criminalize them.

Originally posted by josephw
How do you know how to act in a morally sound way?

I believe that, being the social creatures that we are, that wanting or needing to act in a morally sound way is innate within us and this is nurtured in us by our families and our communities.

Originally posted by josephw
Suddenly without my so-called man made religion I wouldn't be able to know the difference between right and wrong, but since you're above it all you do?

If your religious beliefs are the only thing keeping you from acting in a morally unsound way, then I welcome it.

Originally posted by josephw
Odd how you can talk out of both sides of your mouth.

What are the two different things you think I am saying?

Originally posted by josephw
If most people considered homosexuality criminal would you join the crowd in condemning the criminality of homosexuality?

I would consider it a morally unsound law.

Originally posted by FMF
Do I think I will ever be good enough? Well, I have to ask: good enough for what?

You know the answer to that question.

Been on the move since 3:30am. 18 hours ago. Shutting down. It's been a delight. Next time my friend. 😴