30 Aug 07
Originally posted by catnap642I understand what you are saying... but the melting point of steel is 2750F degrees. http://education.jlab.org/qa/meltingpoint_01.html
It was the fire that caused the steel to melt.
According to the book, 'Last Man Down - The Fireman's Story' by Richard Picciotto steel starts to melt at around 1500F and aircraft fuel burns at around 2000F.
Because the fire from the impact of the aircraft/fuel couldn't be controlled the steel basically melted and caused the collapse of the twin ...[text shortened]... t was a bit repetitive at times but it told the story from a totally different perspective.
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30 Aug 07
Originally posted by ChessJesterI didn't quote the book on that - I only guesstimated the figures but I believe the reason of the steel melting to be true
I understand what you are saying... but the melting point of steel is 2750F degrees. http://education.jlab.org/qa/meltingpoint_01.html
30 Aug 07
Max burning temp of jet fuel is 1796 °F according to a wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_fuel
Anyway, regardless of the steel melting, my point still stands.
http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://radified.com/911/JPEGs/911_pentagon.jpg&imgrefurl=http://radified.com/911/911_pentagon.htm&h=284&w=390&sz=57&hl=en&start=93&tbnid=YicsnX8ZU-xhTM:&tbnh=103&tbnw=142&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpentagon%2B911%26start%3D80%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN
here is a picture of the pentagon right after the strike and I don't see any big hole in the ground, do you?
These questions need to be asked I think... there is something fishy going on there.
30 Aug 07
Originally posted by catnap642Perhaps you're right and you just misspelled as 1500Fahrenheit should stand for 1500Celsium (2000F->2000C). At least that's what the previously mentioned website says.
I didn't quote the book on that - I only guesstimated the figures but I believe the reason of the steel melting to be true
30 Aug 07
Originally posted by jimslyp69I think that the structure from the impact site and above could be weakened from the fire and if it collapsed, it would topple over rather than falling through the rest of the steel below it.
The steel didn't have to melt for the building to collapse though did it? Just weakened sufficiently enough?
30 Aug 07
Originally posted by ChessJesterwhen a blacksmith forges iron, it's around 1200-1500 degrees hot, and still easily bends to whatever shape he wishes. similarly, a heated steel skeleton of a skyscraper won't endure the strain as it would unheated.
I understand what you are saying... but the melting point of steel is 2750F degrees. http://education.jlab.org/qa/meltingpoint_01.html
30 Aug 07
Originally posted by wormwoodIron has a lower melting point than steel, its also not as strong, so it bends easier.
when a blacksmith forges iron, it's around 1200-1500 degrees hot, and still easily bends to whatever shape he wishes. similarly, a heated steel skeleton of a skyscraper won't endure the strain as it would unheated.
Also, none of the steel supports below the impact were affected by the fire, so how come they offered no resistance to the collapse? If you look at the video, it collapses outwards and at free fall speed, meaning that if the rest of the steel supports were still below melting temperature as they would have been they would have either slowed the vertical collapse or they would have caused the building to topple over rather than collapse into itself at the speed of free-fall.
There was a fire in the tallest skyscraper in Caracas, Venezuela on October 17, 2004. The blaze began before midnight on the 34th floor, spread to more than 26 floors, and burned for more than 17 hours. Heat from the fires prevented firefighters from reaching the upper floors, and smoke injured 40 firefighters. It did not collapse. Afterwards, Engineers went up and inspected the building, stating that "it is very solid."
30 Aug 07
Originally posted by ChessJesterCan you imagine one story of a building collapsing with millions of tons of agregate above it? It drops 20 feet. The next floor gives in due to the massive momentum. ad infinitum until the ground is reached.
Iron has a lower melting point than steel, its also not as strong, so it bends easier.
Also, none of the steel supports below the impact were affected by the fire, so how come they offered no resistance to the collapse? If you look at the video, it collapses outwards and at free fall speed, meaning that if the rest of the steel supports were still be ...[text shortened]... se. Afterwards, Engineers went up and inspected the building, stating that "it is very solid."