Originally posted by Landisqueen170I don't believe I have professed to proffer a solution.
Lots of blame, accusations, complaints, rhetoric...
Any solution you can provide would be nice to hear...
Perhaps if the USA stopped invading sovereign states, deposing their regimes on the pretext of a pack of lies and awarding lucrative government contracts to individuals in its own administration it may help, don't you think?
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Originally posted by GHOST HUNTERBackbone is what is needed. The civilized world cannot tolerate such in-your-face blatant evil.
yes 397
no 223
good to see some backbone
War sucks. But what perhaps sucks even more is to stand by and ignore videotaped beheadings, the caging and burning alive of a human being, the executions of those unwilling to covert, the systematic abuse and exploitation of women and children, the bombing of an airliner full of civilians, the massacre of French citizens by cowardly killers who despise and reject their freedoms, their way of life, and will stop at nothing in an attempt to destroy...
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieYea, yea, yea....America is the root of all that is wrong in the world. I get it.
I don't believe I have professed to proffer a solution.
Perhaps if the USA stopped invading sovereign states, deposing their regimes on the pretext of a pack of lies and awarding lucrative government contracts to individuals in its own administration it may help, don't you think? lets think who you have proped up,
Just a friendly reminder - your nation has repeatedly stood side by side with ours in carrying out missions and addressing conflicts around the globe for decades 😉
Offer solutions. Quit finger-pointing from your comfy home and tell us how to fix the world.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieGoodness, I actually agree with a lot of what Robbie says here.
Bombing is a real no brainer, Islamic state will merely go underground and regroup. They hypocrisy of Europe and the Americans is that they are willing to support a state like Saudi Arabia and condemn one like the Assad government in Syrian on the basis of human rights abuses? The president of the USA has stated that Assads own people do not want hi ...[text shortened]...
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/09/saudi-arabia-becomes-worlds-biggest-arms-importer
So we got Syria a land of 20 million people,about 4/5 the size of England.
USA is bombing along with France,Turkey Israel and Saudi Arabia.
Kurds attacking,US trained rebels attacking and ISIS attacking.
Then we got Russia bombing,Iran bombing and China backing them against the West.
Now we are going to start bombing.
I saw a Syrian in Damascus being asked what he thought about UK bombing.
We are tired of the bombing he said, now there's a surprise !
Originally posted by Landisqueen170No its clear that you do not get it.
Yea, yea, yea....America is the root of all that is wrong in the world. I get it.
Just a friendly reminder - your nation has repeatedly stood side by side with ours in carrying out missions and addressing conflicts around the globe for decades 😉
Offer solutions. Quit finger-pointing from your comfy home and tell us how to fix the world.
Spare me your war jingoism, it has no effect on me. I am interested in facts and the facts are that you supported and armed the Mujihadeen to fight those godless commies the Russkies. What did they become? Thats right our friends the Taliban! well done and congratulations.
You invaded Iraq and created a power vacuum and what eventually surfaced? The Islamic state! Well done and congratulations. What was your oil doing under that Iraqi sand?
You supported and armed Syrian rebels and what happened to those weapons? Thats correct they found their way to the Islamic state! Congratulations and well done. Now while I realize that the truth of the matter may be difficult for you to take or even acknowledge it seems, those are the facts.
I have already told you I do not have a solution nor do I profess to proffer one. Why that is difficult for you to grasp I cannot say.
Perhaps if you stopped arming Syrian rebels with weapons to give to the Islamic state and let President Assad fight them, it may be the course of wisdom, but of course thats right they are Shia and your big buddies those fun loving Saudis who buy all those weapons from Lockheed Martin wouldn't be very pleased now, would they?
And every {Islamic state] fighter reportedly has three sets of M16 rifles and body armour, captured from Syrian and Iraqi government forces.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/11052919/How-Isil-is-funded-trained-and-operating-in-Iraq-and-Syria.html
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieYour thinking is very simplistic. Your nation has been a strong ally of ours, and accompanied us on mission after mission around the globe. This you cannot explain away.
No its clear that you do not get it.
Spare me your war jingoism, it has no effect on me. I am interested in facts and the facts are that you supported and armed the Mujihadeen to fight those godless commies the Russkies. What did they become? Thats right our friends the Taliban! well done and congratulations.
You invaded Iraq and created ...[text shortened]... solution nor do I profess to proffer one. Why that is difficult for you to grasp I cannot say.
So please - either share some blame... if there is blame to be given, or quit teaming up with us and renounce us as your ally.
And then, after that, once you are off your soapbox, contribute positively by offering some solutions.
Originally posted by Landisqueen170Just because we helped you screw everything up don't make it right.
Your thinking is very simplistic. Your nation has been a [b]strong ally of ours, and accompanied us on mission after mission around the globe. This you cannot explain away.
So please - either share some blame... if there is blame to be given, or quit teaming up with us and renounce us as your ally.
And then, after that, once you are off your soapbox, contribute positively by offering some solutions.[/b]
03 Dec 15
Originally posted by Landisqueen170First of all I have no need of explaining away. I renounce all warmongers. I don't care where they are from.
Your thinking is very simplistic. Your nation has been a [b]strong ally of ours, and accompanied us on mission after mission around the globe. This you cannot explain away.
So please - either share some blame... if there is blame to be given, or quit teaming up with us and renounce us as your ally.
And then, after that, once you are off your soapbox, contribute positively by offering some solutions.[/b]
No people like you need to hear the facts of what your country has created. 250,000 Iraqi widows! Thousands of American mothers and fathers who lost sons and daughters. Why? because of corporate greed. If you cannot handle that then its your affair not mine.
I will say this for the last time, I do not have any solutions, but i tell you this, giving arms to Syrian rebels is not helping one bit. Btw I don't think someone who posts texts that read like the front cover of the Daily mail should be accusing other people of being simplistic, just saying.
03 Dec 15
How is robbie in any way 'responsible' for what actions the UK military has taken in recent years in concert with US forces when he does not condone [1] what those US actions have been, and [2] what those UK actions have been. robbie has presented some ideas that people should rebut. Simply saying 'your country does it too, robbie' is not a proper argument. It would be like saying I have to defend the death penalty because I live in a country that has it, and that I am a hypocrite for opposing capital punishment when I live in a country that executes people. It's not a proper argument.
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Originally posted by Captain StrangeWell, I agree. lol Although we have not screwed "everything" up...that is a bit of a stretch 😉
Just because we helped you screw everything up don't make it right.
I am not at all pleased with many of our foreign policy decisions in the last decade +. In hindsight, there is much that we "screwed up" along with the help of other great nations. Find me a nation with a flawless record, with perfect foreign policies, void of any hidden agendas or self-serving motives. None exist.
But as a relatively young nation, we have contributed to this world in a positive way more often than not.
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Originally posted by FMFSays who? You? Oh yes, the JJE. hmmmm.
How is robbie in any way 'responsible' for what actions the UK military has taken in recent years in concert with US forces when he does not condone [1] what those US actions have been, and [2] what those UK actions have been. robbie has presented some ideas that people should rebut. Simply saying 'your country does it too, robbie' is not a proper argument. It w ...[text shortened]... ng capital punishment when I live in a country that executes people. It's not a proper argument.
I say it is a fine argument.
I did not say he was "responsible" for the actions of the UK military. What I suggested was that before he throws spears at my nation, he should take a hard look at his own. It is imperfect, too.
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieWho is a warmonger? Not I, my friend. I despise war.
First of all I have no need of explaining away. I renounce all warmongers. I don't care where they are from.
No people like you need to hear the facts of what your country has created. 250,000 Iraqi widows! Thousands of American mothers and fathers who lost sons and daughters. Why? because of corporate greed. If you cannot handle that then i ...[text shortened]... front cover of the Daily mail should be accusing other people of being simplistic, just saying.
So we should all bury our heads in the sand and hope these evil people just leave us alone? That's a GREAT plan. People like you criticize until the cows come home, offer no ideas as to how to "fix" things, and never recognize anything good that America does.
Ask the Kurds about our involvement.
They wept when our soldiers pulled out. They are true freedom fighters. They have always shown complete gratitude towards our nation. They do not see us as invaders. Our soldiers and theirs are like one. Our governmental policies screwed them, no doubt, but still they view America in a favorable light.
You cannot explain away your country's shoulder-to-shoulder relationship with America. If your country and its citizens believe that we are that bad of a nation, then they should not stand with us - ever.
03 Dec 15
Originally posted by Landisqueen170robbie has been absolutely consistent in his objection to the military escapades of the UK as long as I have known him. He has been taking "a hard look at his own nation" for years ~ perhaps his entire adult life. So, that aside, do you have any answers to the arguments he has offered?
I did not say he was "responsible" for the actions of the UK military. What I suggested was that before he throws spears at my nation, he should take a hard look at his own. It is imperfect, too.
03 Dec 15
Originally posted by Landisqueen170If this is your 'argument' in favour of bombing ~ in so far as what is being considered right now ~ is it not a rather clumsy mix of false dilemma and straw man?
So we should all bury our heads in the sand and hope these evil people just leave us alone?