@divegeester saidAnd remove their free will?
What is the point of an invisible, unproven, contested, preconceived place of eternal torture, which is designed for the sole purpose of avenging yourself on billions of people who would believe in you if you simply showed them it was real?
God doesn't come down and introduce himself to each of us for the very same reason.
Pretty hard to insist that something that has been shown to you is not real.
I guess unless you're a Republican.
To answer your post directly, I can't answer. I guess it's where the Lake of Fire is stashed. I can't see any other point.
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@suzianne saidIt’s a bit odd to confuse the exercising of free will with the full knowledge needed in order to make an informed choice.
And remove their free will?
God doesn't come down and introduce himself to each of us for the very same reason.
Pretty hard to insist that something that has been shown to you is not real.
@suzianne saidThe incoherent ideology of "Hell" and everlasting torture makes nonsense of the concept of "free will". If the existence of the Christian version of "Hell" were demonstrably true, THEN people could exercise "free will" about how to live their lives in light of Christian narratives.
And remove their free will?
@divegeester saidNo, what you're missing is that, at that point, the "informed" choice is NO choice.
It’s a bit odd to confuse the exercising of free will with the full knowledge needed in order to make an informed choice.
@fmf saidAgain, you do not understand the concept of choice.
The incoherent ideology of "Hell" and everlasting torture makes nonsense of the concept of "free will". If the existence of the Christian version of "Hell" were demonstrably true, THEN people could exercise "free will" about how to live their lives in light of Christian narratives.
True choices are things like "Do you choose Door #1 or Door #2?", but only if the outcomes are uncertain.
If Door #1 has a chocolate cheesecake, and Door #2 has a tiger behind it, ready to eat you, and you know in advance which door has what, is the choice really a choice? Everyone would pick Door #1. Hardly a Free Will choice.
On "Let's Make a Deal", Monty Hall never gave out contrived choices like this. They were only to choose something good, or something less good or nothing. And no one knew which was which. Truly a Free Will choice.
Hell not being true (or at least not knowing), means you do have a choice. Most people deal with this choice by assuming hell is not true and when you die, that's it.
The sad thing is that they choose this because their other choice, going to the New Kingdom, or in common palance, "heaven", is assumed to be not true as well. In effect, they deny the cheesecake behind Door #1. They see the choices as equal, and this thus becomes a free will choice.
@suzianne saidI think I understand it well enough, Suzianne. It's not clear, at all, that your God figure exists: Christian faith is essentially rooted in speculation. Added to this, the eternal torture ideology is morally incoherent. So how does this "genuine" choice work? I have to subscribe to the things that appeal to the imaginations of people like KellyJay and sonship or I will be tortured in burning flames for all eternity. This propagandized groupthink is an insult to "free will".
Again, you do not understand the concept of choice.
05 Apr 22
@suzianne saidWhere is the credible evidence that there is a "New Kingdom"? Show me that it exists and then I will choose whether I want to go there or not.
The sad thing is that they choose this because their other choice, going to the New Kingdom, or in common palance, "heaven", is assumed to be not true as well.
@divegeester saidTo frighten people into obedience.
What is the point of an invisible, unproven, contested, preconceived place of eternal torture, which is designed for the sole purpose of avenging yourself on billions of people who would believe in you if you simply showed them it was real?
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@suzianne saidThe notion of an all loving, all knowing and all powerful god who creates a SECRET place of the most unimaginable eternal horror for those people, (whom he claimed loves so much he died for them) … if they don’t believe he exists, based on the “evidence” of ancient texts written in a religious book, is utterly ludicrous.
Again, you do not understand the concept of choice.
True choices are things like "Do you choose Door #1 or Door #2?", but only if the outcomes are uncertain.
If Door #1 has a chocolate cheesecake, and Door #2 has a tiger behind it, ready to eat you, and you know in advance which door has what, is the choice really a choice? Everyone would pick Door #1. Hardly a Free ...[text shortened]... cheesecake behind Door #1. They see the choices as equal, and this thus becomes a free will choice.