Originally posted by greenpawn34Eh, I don't think that's a good analogy... That's like saying a kindergartener has more fun finger painting then a tortured soul like Van Gogh has painting Starry Night or a self-portrait. While it's true by the most basic definition of "fun", you have to admit there's a certain satisfaction in creating a masterpiece which you really put your all into. That you sacrificed for...
You just have to look at the nervous serious faces of the
top boards at any weekend tournament.
None of them are playing for fun.
Then look at the cheerful faces of the bottom boards in the minor sections.
They are having a great time.
IMO a beginner could never experience the sense of triumph an experienced player does. When I started out I admit I took more pleasure in simple tricks at the board, flinging pieces at my opponent's king, and coming up with ideas completely on my own... I played for the love of the game. However, I can't say the sensation matched the pleasure I got after beating my Uncle for the first time, after long hours of study.
Of course, there are people who take the game too seriously, who lose track of what they're really playing for, and probably can't enjoy the game anymore. Bobby Fischer anyone? I just don't agree that a patzer enjoys the game more winning on board 5 at his local club than say Anand did after training his entire life and winning the WCC.
Hi DivGradCurl
Well there is a certain amount of tongue in cheek going on.
(I did finish the blog with a 😉 )
However your analogy is far better than mine.
Kids finger painting will be loving every minute of it.
To them their messy splogges will be works of art and although it looks
like a mess to you they can tell you exactley what it is they have painted.
The sad fact is if you put that painting away for 20 years and then ask
them what it was they could not tell you.
They have grown up, the simple joy that was once there has gone and will
not be coming back. *
Van Goch on the other hand suffered for his art and had no fun at all.
I often judged best game prizes at tournamnets. I would place an empty
box in the playing hall and come Sunday night it would be full of games
by under 1400 players playing in the Minor 'B' event.
I would play out each and every one.
These games by normal standard were pretty bad, missed mates, pieces
left hanging but in there, at the very end, you would see why it was placed in the box.
A sacrifice, a genuine 100% piece sac for a mate.
Possibly the first time that lad had ever made such a sac.
(On the score sheet you would often see something like 23.NxP+ !!!!)
Often stuck for a really good game I would oapproach a 2200 player
and say I've heard about your two piece sac - sac mate enter it for the brillo prize.
They would shrug, "nah, it's not a good game."
Who is having the most fun?
I think you have missed the difference between fun and satisfaction.
A weaker player will shrug his shoulders at a lose. 'Let's play another?'
A stronger player will throw a hissy, walk away from the game for weeks,
tear up his scoresheet in front of his opponent and storm off, have sleepless
nights recalling a terrible move.
Come up with one thousand and nine hundred and twent six reasons why they lost.
Who is having the most fun?
There's definitly something wrong with someone who thinks that it great that he can defeat someone rated 100 points above him (and thinks he must have played a great game to do it) but then throws a hissy fit if he loses to someone below him (because he had to play a terrible game to lose).
Hey wait a minute, that describes me!
***Puts hands in pockets and walks away whistling***
Hi WW & Eladar
It's hilarious to see sometimes, I've never seen a so called weak player go ape.
Have to mention beside the box for brilliancy games I always had a box
for blunders and cheapo's (Corner material).
The blunders would get placed in the box often by the weak player loser
and they would approach me with a glowing pride.
"Did you see my terrible mistake against Smith?"
Have you ever tried getting the score of a loss out of a good player?
Try it next time you see a good player lose at a tournament.
"That was a good game you lost can I have the score?"
If looks could kill....
Ask a weaker player and they give you the score right away.
"And here is another one I lost and another...."
You end up with a pocketful of broken dreams and complete disasters.
It appears the better you get the more serious you take the 'game'.
I wish I was a beginner again, they have so much fun.
Edit 1 (good that bit, wish I had put it in the BLOG).
Apparently the young Bobby would often cry when he lost.
In later years he was always described as being very gracious in defeat.
But this is just one icon from the millions and millions of other chees players.
Home and casual players play for fun.
I'd say the better you get the more sting a loss has attached to it
so in that respect an element of fun had gone out the game.
Never been scared of losing, hate the pain, accepted the pain if
I played true to myself and played OK.
They played better than me.......on that day.
I've hated losing from day one, but it isn't really the problem. what I REALLY hate is when I do something wrong. something stupid. the sort of incompleteness of it. if I win that takes some edge off of it, but I know that stupid ugly thing is there, and there's nothing I can do to shake it off.
but I also have no problems showing the bad games. I already know they're bad, hiding them wouldn't change anything.
Originally posted by greenpawn34I don't wish that at all for myself or for you.
I wish I was a beginner again, they have so much fun.
I look at chess as the greatest puzzle in the world. As has been discussed in other threads it's theoretically solvable, but doing so is out of the reach of mankind (for now). From the beginning I've taken great joy in solving mysteries of the game, and no matter how much I progress there will always be more to learn.
Think of it as a jigsaw puzzle with almost infinite pieces. The more pieces I find that fit, the more of the picture I expose and can enjoy. It's like a never ending journey.
That being said, I have to be competently honest. There is a small part of it that is about ego. When my skills progress I feel a sense of accomplishment and pride.
The downside is it's very difficult to find people to play, and I'm not even "strong" by player standards.
Edit: I almost forgot. The reason I don't wish that for you is because I thoroughly enjoy reading your insights and observations. Not to get mushy here, but in my opinion RHP would be a bit less enjoyable if you left.
Originally posted by Eladarhello elader,
I was just wondering why I should get better at chess. Are games more fun? Or is simply so that I can say that I'm better than others because my rating is higher?
you should get better at chess because chess improves your mental ability.
it also helps you in improving concentration. chess is really fun if you learn it in proper way. you should visit www.ichessu.com . This website offers online chess lessons for learning and improving chess. they offer everything that you may need for improving your chess game and rating.😀
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Originally posted by greenpawn34your post reminded me of a lecture on the "beginner's mind."
You just have to look at the nervous serious faces of the
top boards at any weekend tournament.
None of them are playing for fun.
Then look at the cheerful faces of the bottom boards in the minor sections.
They are having a great time.
greenpawn34 must be a zen master.
[ below, something cut &pasted from google ]
Back in the dojo, a senior ranked student performs a front kick and slips and falls over for no reason. He gets up quickly hoping nobody noticed the flub, and mutters about some undulation in the perfectly flat wooden floor. Trust me, I have seen this kind of thing happen repeatedly and it always reminds me of the importance of having a "Beginner's Mind."
If you watch any serious beginner in any activity, you usually see great concentration, heightened awareness and a real drive to succeed. Although they know their techniques are not perfect, their mistakes are usually due to a lack of knowledge rather than a lack of focus. We "experienced" practitioners of karate should learn from this and try to think back to that special feeling that we also had as beginners. That exciting feeling of learning something new, of learning the next sequence in a kata, of successfully blocking an opponent's attack, and of ending a fight against a black belt and being able to say you were on the floor just five times, instead of the usual ten. Better still that you actually put the black belt on the floor too!
A "beginner's mind" means that you realize you have a lot to learn; it means that you're open to criticism, but more importantly, the next time you fall flat on your face, you'll get up with a smile rather than an attitude!
Originally posted by tonytiger41Good points. But the thing with chess is the vast majority of players are still infants compared to the top players. When the mystique is gone for one element of chess there will always be more mysteries to solve.
your post reminded me of a lecture on the "beginner's mind."
greenpawn34 must be a zen master.
[ below, something cut &pasted from google ]
Back in the dojo, a senior ranked student performs a front kick and slips and falls over for no reason. He gets up quickly hoping nobody noticed the flub, and mutters about some undulation in the perfectly ...[text shortened]... me you fall flat on your face, you'll get up with a smile rather than an attitude!
I used to watch 1500 games with wonder, not knowing why they make certain moves. And even though I'm passed that I still couldn't even begin to analyse the games of GMs. In this regard I will always feel like a beginner.