Originally posted by GalaxyShieldyou better hurry up and get studying, or you'll never win the U1500 nationals, which by the way is less than three months away!
But I will be starting soon.
anyway, if you want to get good, you have to have someone coach you, who is already that good, or you could hit the books, or get a chess progarm like fritz or chessmaster. and go through their training thingies.😲
- Joined
- 21 Apr 06
- Moves
- 4211
Originally posted by chessisvanityMaybe its possible but would be a much slower way of doing it than play/study. I hit 1800 after about a year and a half of study/play. Took about 20 books, endless CT art, 6 opening dvds, silly amounts of corry chess (400 odd games) along with lots of time spent in just pure analysis. Even talking to 1500-1600s the extent of their theory is quite often pretty vast...at the end of the day I think realistically you do need to study.
Anyone think it is possible to reach 1800 by doing nothing but playing chess?
No studying just playing game after game and doing your best...
Anyones thoughts?
With enough intuition and experience, you could get reach any kind of rating. All studying does is give you knowledge faster, so you do not have to learn things on your own. Theory has just come out of playing games, so it follows that if you play enough, you will learn everything theory could teach you eventually. Its not time efficient though.
Originally posted by RahimKthe top active players aren't even close to 1800 in rhp
No! The only way I can see this being possible is if you spend 15+ years. I even doubt it then.
I mean if you keep playing game over game and not going over them, not reading books, not studying etc...
No way.
Originally posted by Ason Pigg2when you start to read books and all that stuff that comes with it chess becomes hard and then you start to play like someone else moves and people you never even heard of ,chess is experience and thinking what you did wrong to lose that game and not do it again,quite like life ,no ? is studpid they all must be answered whats the point in playing if you play like someone else
the top active players aren't even close to 1800 in rhp
No! You may not need to study a lot if you have the appropriate level of ability but if you do not read up on your favorite openings and study basic endings, no matter what your tactical ability is you will never rise to a high level. You will in effect be reinventing the wheel and will be at an incredible disadvantage when facing opponents who have good opening knowledge and who know how to convert "won" endings into wins.
- Joined
- 02 Feb 06
- Moves
- 123634
Originally posted by chessisvanityI reached 1700 very recently with very little studying just playing lots of games and learning from them. However, I could not hold my rating there and I think it would be very, very difficult and lucky for me to get to 1800 without really studying the game. So I plan on studying a lot more in the near future.
Anyone think it is possible to reach 1800 by doing nothing but playing chess?
No studying just playing game after game and doing your best...
Anyones thoughts?
Edit: Just to be clear what I mean by very little studying. I've read one book in the past 2 years and that was Silman's Amatuer Mind and I thought it was very helpful. I've read bits and pieces of Pandolfini's EndGame course just to get some basic concepts down. I've looked at maybe half a dozen master games. I've gained a basic understanding of some of the more common openings just by looking at them online. I consider this too little effort to get to 1800 as is clear by some of the games I'm losing.
Define studying.
In order to reach 1800 here or OTB (short of rating manipulation, Claude Bloodgood style), you need a minimum of positional understanding, tactical strength, and the ability to learn from your mistakes.
You can gain these many ways, including simply listening to stronger players (as Galaxy Shield claims he does), intense tactical training (RahimK is M. de Maza's advocate here), and by taking lessons.
As all these several methods fit under the general rubric of studying, the answer to the question is no. However, if you mean without book study, it is possible to reach 1800. Book study makes the process more certain, however.
When I reach 1800 OTB sometime in the next two years, and 1800 here sometime this spring, it will have been the result of countless hours of blitz, private lessons from a master, and lots of book study with emphasis upon positional play (Silman etc.) and endgames (Dvoretsky), as well as tactical training (including Reinfield's 1001, Alburt's Pocket Book, and Kabers' Exercises: http://webplaza.pt.lu/public/ckaber/Chess.htm#Chess%20training).
Unless you're of the ability of a Morphy or Capablanca, I doubt that you can get to 1800 without benefit of study. There's too much rudimentary stuff to learn, like basic mating patterns, simple endings, general theory, opening structures, that you'd never "reinvent the wheel," simply by playing. In my hometown, at the chess club there, a player I know is in his 70s. He's stubbornly proud of the fact that he's never studied a book in his life. He beats the unschooled players and children mercilessly. However, as soon as he encounters serious, orthodox opposition, his game turns from bad to worse and ultimately ends in his resignation. He could lose a hundred games like this but as long as he wins the odd game, it reinforces his unorthodoxy. The point of all this is that by studying books or collected games of the great players, you can greatly speed the process of getting to 1800.
As people have pointed out, it depends what you mean as study. And if you define it broadly enough, it's almost impossible not to study if you play chess regularly.
However...
As a junior I reached a grade of around BCF 140 OTB (which may or may not be 1800, depending on which conversion formula you trust) by the age of about 14 with no real study beyond some basic stuff at primary school. Just lots of playing of competitive (mainly league) matches. But you do reach a plateau - I didn't improve over the next few years, and I'd put that down to not being interested in studying it. In particular, my opening knowledge was poor except for those I played regularly.
Originally posted by chessisvanityI think it is possible to reach 1800 with minimal study. One book is enough, if you practice enough. It takes a lot longer though. You'd have to learn from your mistakes, which entails after game analysis. Does this count as study? I think it probably does...😉
Anyone think it is possible to reach 1800 by doing nothing but playing chess?
No studying just playing game after game and doing your best...
Anyones thoughts?
I don't think you have to study in the more official sense; that is, you don't necessarily need to read countless books. So long as you review your games, consider the moves made and the results it achieved you should ultimately arrive at the same conclusions that many books put forward. Studying more official books merely expedites the learning process. From then on I'd guess it's more about practice and raw ability.
- Joined
- 21 Jun 06
- Moves
- 82236
Originally posted by chessisvanityI do think this is possible. I recall talking to a good player who mentioned one of the very best players he had played against. He claimed that this player had spent eight years in a cuban prison. Most of his time he had spent playing chess agains the other prisoners. Maybe that's what it takes.
Anyone think it is possible to reach 1800 by doing nothing but playing chess?
No studying just playing game after game and doing your best...
Anyones thoughts?
Originally posted by Dies Iraeexactly my thoughts. it's just a matter of time and talent. if you don't wish to spend 50 years to reach level X (=2000 or whatever, depending on your talent), it's better to read books, have teachers/mentors etc.
With enough intuition and experience, you could get reach any kind of rating. All studying does is give you knowledge faster, so you do not have to learn things on your own. Theory has just come out of playing games, so it follows that if you play enough, you will learn everything theory could teach you eventually. Its not time efficient though.