Originally posted by plopzilla3.Nf3 is playable and practicable choice but calling it "refutation" is total nonsense.
I think the 'scando' Ahem.. centre-counter 🙂 is practically refuted after the 3.Nf3 line which for some reason everyone seems to ignore - yet it scores very well:
1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nf3 Bg4 4.Be2 Nf6 5.O-O e6 6.d4 Qd8 7.h3 Bh5 8.c4 c6 9.Nc3 Be7 10.Be3 O-O what has black got other than perhaps a draw or hoping for a blunder at best?
Maybe GP can shed some light on the best line after 3.Nf3 - (4.g6?)
1) After 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nf3 Bg4 4.Be2 black can play 4...Nc6 5.d4 0-0-0 with mutual chances.
2) After 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nf3 Bg4 4.Be2 Nf6 5.O-O e6 6.d4 Black is not obliged to play so passive. 6...Nc6 7.c4 Qd7 (with Rd8 to follow) seems to be reasonable alternative.
Originally posted by Pacifiqueno, this is total nonsense... where did you get it from?
[b]3.Nf3 is playable and practicable choice but calling it "refutation" is total nonsense.
1) After 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nf3 Bg4 4.Be2 black can play 4...Nc6 5.d4 0-0-0 with mutual chances.
1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. Nf3 Bg4 4. Be2 Nc6 5. d4 O-O-O 6. c4! <- mutual chances?
- I know what side i'd rather be.
Originally posted by plopzillaTake a look in database to find some GM games, before making ignorant claims. In the game below GM Kurajica demonstrated IMHO one of the best ways (3...Bg4 4. Be2 Nc6 5. d4 O-O-O 6. c4 Qf5 7. Be3 Bxf3 8. Bxf3 Nxd4 9. Bxd4 Qe6+ 10. Be2 c5) how to play vs 3.Nf3.
no, this is total nonsense... where did you get it from?
1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. Nf3 Bg4 4. Be2 Nc6 5. d4 O-O-O 6. c4! <- mutual chances?
- I know what side i'd rather be.
Hi Plopzilla
"Maybe GP can shed some light on the best line after 3.Nf3"
I wish I had all the answers, if I did I would not sharing them on a chess forum. 😉
Keeping things at our level. Yes 3.Nf3 has the advantage that it is playable
and not what Black expected. There is an excellent chance they will have
only booked up on 3.Nc3 and already are on their own.
I have a 2004 book on this opening. It is called The Centre Counter by
Andrew Martin. it has 6 of the 134 pages on 3.Nf3 the majority on 3.Nc3.
The GM Kurajica game Pacifique posted is an excellent model to follow.
(not memorise...follow the idea. aim to 0-0-0 and mix it.)
Martin recs 3...Nf6 as the move with a whole set of different ideas.
My feeling is Black (at our level) will not when faced with 3.Nf3 go for the
Kurajica line because it involves a Nc6. (it is a good and playable move).
They will be warned fairly frequently about the dangers of not leaving
their Queen out on a limb and the need to supply a bolt hole with c6.
(even though here the Queen is on d5 they fully expect a Nc3 and to play Qa5).
Here after 1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. Nc3 Qa5 4. d4
Martin gives 4...c6 a !
And this small amount of book knowledge is the reason why I have over
40 examples on the 1400 DB of Black playing here
after 1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. Nf3
3...c6 a nothing non-developing move.
-------------------------------------------------
You want a line v the Centre Counter. How about 4.b4
Now don't go jumping into an opening book to look at it.
All you will see is soul destroying, confidence sapping refutations,
they won't mention the 56% v 42% plus white has with it on here.
Why look at moves you won't see.
Play it as you see it, make it up as you go along, you are tossing a wing pawn
for big kicks on the Queen. Make that the theme of your game.
You have tossed one pawn so dont be afraid to toss in another and another...
...why not you have lost the never to be seen ending. Have confidence, have fun.
(the truth in chess seekers never have any fun. When the fear of losing overcomes
the fun of simply playing the game, it's time to give up.)
One RHP example. dagi - Fizzer RHP 2010
Black's 5th move. Something we are all guilty of.
A crude example of knowing a little when infact we are much better
off sometimes knowing nothing. (all the more reason not to look at the
bool ref to 4.b4.)
The post that was quoted here has been removedplease let me explain, 'with little thinking', has connotations of being mechanical, this
is not my desire at all, what i mean by the easiest is one that has the easiest
strategic goals attached to it and which can readily be achieved. I am aware that as
far as i can discern, the Sicilian is certainly the best, as it unbalances the position
from the outset, if white plays the open Sicilian, black has a central pawn majority
and will do well in the endgame if he survives whites attack, its principles of play
against the centre or a minority attack on the queens wing are well known and its
razor sharp, not to mention many amateurs, especially at my measly level in blitz,
dont know what to do against it (the number of times i have gained two or more
tempi on a stupidly placed bishop on c4 are countless), but, it requires skill and
extensive study, one has to know what to do against so many white set ups. If there
was a simple , bullet proof Sicilian, where one can generally follow a scheme of play,
this would be ideal. As a Colle (peace be upon him) player, i am attracted to the
slav style pawn structures of the Scandinavian and the caro kan, but find many of
the positions quite passive, to be honest.
Originally posted by greenpawn34actually GP i have read it, and i agree with it, to some extent, but one must have
Hi Robbie
Read:
http://www.chessville.com/GC/All_opening_books_are_a_ripoff.htm
Keep it to yourself, don't let anyone else see this link.)
something prepared, even if its just five or six moves.
Originally posted by greenpawn34
Hi Robbie
Read:
http://www.chessville.com/GC/All_opening_books_are_a_ripoff.htm
(Keep it to yourself, don't let anyone else see this link.)
Send me a picture of your fridge.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieHi Robbie.
actually GP i have read it, and i agree with it, to some extent, but one must have
something prepared, even if its just five or six moves.
Why, all you are doing is playing what your opponent will be expecting you to play.
Opening books are published in the thousand, not just one copy.
What you know, the chances are they will know.
The perfect game you seek will eventually come down to this position.
With White to play it's a draw, with Black to play it's White win.
Before then there are trillions upon trillions upon trillions of moves to be played.
What five or six moves are you going to use?
You will need a lot of five or six moves because there are:
318,979,564,000 possible ways just to play the first four moves. (that's a fact!)
The only thing you have to prepare is you state of mind.
The object of the opening is to get the pieces out.
The object of the game is to checkmate the enemy king.
Don't sit behind a Sicilian thinking about how good the coming endgame will be.
Think about check mating White's King.
You need a hero. It's obviously not going to be me so.....
Introducing to the Chess Forum. Dicey Reilly User 450888.
What does Dicey play here?
2.a3! (looks like you will need another five or six against this move as well.)
He's going for the Englund trap in reverse. A good idea.
On here Black has 94 wins to White's 44 with it.
Dicey Reilly - Ofari RHP 2010
Originally posted by robbie carrobieyet the other greatest player of all time,Alekhine,relished in complications
Its my understanding that the greatest chess player of all time, José Raúl Capablanca
is quoted as saying that he avoided complications whenever possible.
Originally posted by PacifiqueLets put your idea to the test - i'll challenge you to a scando game?
Take a look in database to find some GM games, before making ignorant claims. In the game below GM Kurajica demonstrated IMHO one of the best ways (3...Bg4 4. Be2 Nc6 5. d4 O-O-O 6. c4 Qf5 7. Be3 Bxf3 8. Bxf3 Nxd4 9. Bxd4 Qe6+ 10. Be2 c5) how to play vs 3.Nf3.
[pgn][Event "4th Mediterranean Open"] [Site "Rijeka CRO"] [Date "2010.??.??"] [White "Baron,Ta ...[text shortened]... 5. Kf3 h5 46. Ke3 g5 47. Kd3 h4 48. Kc4 h3 49. b5 Kf5 50. Re1 Kf4 0-1[/pgn]