I think 1. d4 f5 2. Bg5 c5 3. dc Qa5+ is perfectly playable, but it does give you a fairly bloody game that smacks more of wild king pawn games. Some people like that in the dutch, others don't. At any rate, you really do have to be booked up in order to play this over the board.
DJK
well, I think best way to play dutch is 1d4 e6 2c4 f5... you avoid staunton gambit and 2Bg5...yes, you can't play the leningrad (g6 and Bg7) but I think thht this is the best way..
yes there's a little chance for the white to play 2e4 but you can always play French defense 2...d5,and a player who opens 1d4 perhaps is not well prepared on this....
lordste
ps for who lves the dutch, I suggest the famous Bogoljubov vs Alekhine (hastings 1922), one of the best games ever played
Originally posted by lordsteYep. But many players go with 1. d4 then 2. Nf3 to make black declare his intentions. Still, you make an excellent point. Move transposition in the opening can sometimes force your oponent in a direction that is less to his liking.
well, I think best way to play dutch is 1d4 e6 2c4 f5... you avoid staunton gambit and 2Bg5...yes, you can't play the leningrad (g6 and Bg7) but I think thht this is the best way..
yes there's a little chance for the white to play 2e4 but you can always play French defense 2...d5,and a player who opens 1d4 perhaps is not well prepared on this....
lordste ...[text shortened]... I suggest the famous Bogoljubov vs Alekhine (hastings 1922), one of the best games ever played
Oh, here is the afforementioned game:
Bogoljubow, Efim D -- Alekhine, Alexander A
It Hastings ENG
1922 0-1 A90
1.d4 f5 2.c4 Nf6 3.g3 e6 4.Bg2 Bb4+ 5.Bd2 Bxd2+ 6.Nxd2 Nc6 7.Ngf3 O-O 8.O-O d6 9.Qb3 Kh8 10.Qc3 e5 11.e3 a5 12.b3 Qe8 13.a3 Qh5 14.h4 Ng4 15.Ng5 Bd7 16.f3 Nf6 17.f4 e4 18.Rfd1 h6 19.Nh3 d5 20.Nf1 Ne7 21.a4 Nc6 22.Rd2 Nb4 23.Bh1 Qe8 24.Rg2 dxc4 25.bxc4 Bxa4 26.Nf2 Bd7 27.Nd2 b5 28.Nd1 Nd3 29.Rxa5 b4 30.Rxa8 bxc3 31.Rxe8 c2 32.Rxf8+ Kh7 33.Nf2 c1=Q+ 34.Nf1 Ne1 35.Rh2 Qxc4 36.Rb8 Bb5 37.Rxb5 Qxb5 38.g4 Nf3+ 39.Bxf3 exf3 40.gxf5 Qe2 41.d5 Kg8 42.h5 Kh7 43.e4 Nxe4 44.Nxe4 Qxe4 45.d6 cxd6 46.f6 gxf6 47.Rd2 Qe2 48.Rxe2 fxe2 49.Kf2 exf1=Q+ 50.Kxf1 Kg7 51.Kf2 Kf7 52.Ke3 Ke6 53.Ke4 d5+ 0-1
Jarno, this is so odd. It's not the first time you and I have been discussing a line and then someone else brings it up in a thread in the Chess Forum!
Anyway, I looked up 1.d4 f5 2.Bg5 in Schiller's Unorthodox Chess Openings. He calls it the Hopton Attack and analyzes Kasparov - Illescas Cordoba, Dos Hermanas 1996, in which Black chases back the B with ...h6 and ...g5 and eventually equalizes (in Schiller's assessment).
In a side note Schiller addresses ...c5, but on Black's third:
1. d4 f5 2. Bg5 h6 3. Bh4 c5
He gives two games:
4. e4 Qb6 5. dxc5 Qxb2 6. Nd2 g5 7. Qh5+ Kd8 8. Rb1 Qf6 9. Ngf3 gxh4 10. e5 Qg7 "and Black went on to win" Sournin-Marshall, New York 1896
4. e3 Qb6 5. b3 Nf6 6. dxc5 Qb4+ 0-1 Hopton-Eastwood, England 1860
Graham Burgess in The Mammoth Book of Chess gives us:
1. d4 f5 2. Bg5 h6 3. Bh4 c5 4. e3 Qb6 5. Nc3 cxd4 6. exd4 g5 7. Qh5+ Kd8 8. Bxg5 Qxb2 9. Kd2 Qxa1 10. Qf7 Qxf1 11. Qxf8+ Kc7 12. Nd5+ Kc6 13. Qxc8+ Kxd5 14. Ne2! Qxf2 15. Be3 Qxg2 16. Qxb7+ Nc6 17. Rg1 Qf3 18. Qb3+ Kd6 19. Bf4+ Qxf4+ 20. Nxf4 Nf6 21. Kc1 a5 22. Qb6 Rab8 23. Qc5+ Kc7 24. Qxf5 Rb6 25. d5 Rhb8 26. dxc6! Rb1+ 27. Kd2 Rxg1 28. Qe5+ d6 29. Qxe7+ Kxc6 30. Qxf6 Rf1 31. Qc3+ Kb7 32. Qg7+ Ka6 33. Qd4 Rbb1 34. Qxd6+ Kb5 35. Nd3 a4 36. c4+ Ka5 37. Qc7+ 1-0 Zazhogin-Kalikshtein USSR jr Ch (Simferopol) 1990
...and that game is mayhem.
I have not yet looked closely at 1. d4 f5 2. Bg5 c5 so I'll refrain from comment, but it looks like the type of position that Jarno would enjoy ruthlessly, and that I would rather avoid as White 🙂
Originally posted by huntingbearNot the oddest occurance this time I'm afraid! As it was me that brought up the line in the thread in the first place.... 🙂
Jarno, this is so odd. It's not the first time you and I have been discussing a line and then someone else brings it up in a thread in the Chess Forum!
Anyway, I looked up 1.d4 f5 2.Bg5 in Schiller's [i]Unorthodox Chess Openings[/i ...[text shortened]... would enjoy ruthlessly, and that I would rather avoid as White 🙂
Thanks for those games though - I'll be sure to study them closely... got to prepare for for that 2.Bg5.... 😀
-Jarno
Originally posted by huntingbearAhh... my mistake! I remembered wrong... indeed it wasn't me who brought up the subject... 😕 So it is a strange coinsidence after all! 🙄
Jarno, I was referring to this post, although I suppose I could have made that more clear 🙂
Cheers,
Jarno