Originally posted by NorrisBI've tried to get through it many, many times, but it's just plain impossible. the content's good, but there's just something... incredibly tedious.
That is such a tedious read Id rather mow the lawn than read that book its needlessly complicated
not a long time ago some IM/GM on icc said something like: "I'm sure the dvoretsky is good, but it's just too damn hard. I analyze a position for 15 minutes, think I get it, then look from the back and WRONG. I don't have time for that."
has anybody anywhere EVER finished dvoretsky's endgame manual? I kinda doubt it.
The Mendis book is called: From the Opening Into the Endgame
I'd call it:
How to lose friends and an interest in chess very very quickly. 😉
He gives a whole host of playable opening lines mostly involving
getting the Queens off, skipping the middle game and into an ending.
Example is here after Black's 6...e5 in the KID.
He recs 7.dxe5 and Queens off and 'the excitement begins' 😳
Play this and the other lines he gives and soon you will run out
of opponents at club nights because no one will want to play you.
So you will sit alone in the corner of the room whilst all around
you everyone is having fun.
But if endings gives you thrills then this is book for you.
It is one of the very few chess books I have given away to a charity shop. *
Though to be open minded and fair it is well written and the examples do
make you want to try it.
But then again you do have to look yourself in the eye when shaving
and if the eye looks back and says: "Who are you kidding?" then you
know you playing like this is not the reason why you love chess so much.
*BCO was another charity shop donation, I also sold another BCO on ebay for 1p.
post free telling the would be buyers it was totally crap (...and it is).
Think it finally went for 50p after some serious and heavy bidding. 🙂
Originally posted by wormwoodI haven't even tried to read it as a book. I just use it to look up positions and go from there. I sometimes get the impression that others on the site don't bother to reference endgame books because otherwise strong players give me games they shouldn't. Games" leave book", but sometimes they return to "book" at the end, and it doesn't just have to be for "bishop, knight and king vs king".
I've tried to get through it many, many times, but it's just plain impossible. the content's good, but there's just something... incredibly tedious.
not a long time ago some IM/GM on icc said something like: "I'm sure the dvoretsky is good, but it's just too damn hard. I analyze a position for 15 minutes, think I get it, then look from the back and WRONG ...[text shortened]...
has anybody anywhere EVER finished dvoretsky's endgame manual? I kinda doubt it.
I suppose I may end up reading it all eventually if I play enough games here, but there are sections I may never get to simply because I haven't had a relevant endgame on the site yet!
Originally posted by greenpawn34I wonder how this one differs from the one you're thinking of? (Other than the obvious reply that one starts in the opening and the other starts in the middlegame.)
The Mendis book is called: [b]From the Opening Into the Endgame
I'd call it:
How to lose friends and an interest in chess very very quickly. 😉
He gives a whole host of playable opening lines mostly involving
getting the Queens off, skipping the middle game and into an ending.
Example is here after Black's 6...e5 in the KID.
[fe p (...and it is).
Think it finally went for 50p after some serious and heavy bidding. 🙂[/b]
http://www.amazon.com/Middlegame-Into-Endgame-Edmar-Mednis/dp/1857440609
Maybe this one...
ttp://www.amazon.com/Middlegame-Into-Endgame-Edmar-Mednis/dp/1857440609
....covers all the opening where friend Mednis could not get the Queens off.
Else they would have appeared in this one.
http://www.amazon.com/Opening-Into-Endgame-Edmar-Mednis/dp/1857441249
The latter is the perfect example of chess marketing.
"We need to publish a book on endings."
"The mugs won't buy it, you know the rules. Chess Books must have
the word Opening in the title else it won't sell......Hey! Wait a minute...."
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Read the chapter about light and dark squares in the book "SIMPLE CHESS" by Michael stean. Read GM secret endings by Soltis. That's all anybody will need to resch a very god level. Even master strength.
The rest is down to skill and the all important vision. Unfortunately without vision you could read hundreds of chess books on the ending or whatever and still play like a Patzer.
I speak from experience!
Originally posted by wormwoodI bought dvoretsky's endgame book 3 months ago and still trying to get through it. In hindsight, maybe I should have got Sillman's endgame book instead.
I've tried to get through it many, many times, but it's just plain impossible. the content's good, but there's just something... incredibly tedious.
not a long time ago some IM/GM on icc said something like: "I'm sure the dvoretsky is good, but it's just too damn hard. I analyze a position for 15 minutes, think I get it, then look from the back and WRONG ...[text shortened]... ."
has anybody anywhere EVER finished dvoretsky's endgame manual? I kinda doubt it.
Originally posted by tomtom232determination? you need a chainsaw mate to get through that. Soltis reckons that
I figure I have the determination to get through it. The edition I ordered has blue print for the most important parts. Anyway, Silman's book and all the other ones will continue to be there for a while.
there are not more than two dozen end game positions one MUST to know for master
level, Dvoretsky's lists some 300 plus!
Originally posted by tomtom232The reviews seem to be varied, hard to draw a conclusion on its usefulness to the average Joe from my perspective. From Silman's site:
I figure I have the determination to get through it. The edition I ordered has blue print for the most important parts. Anyway, Silman's book and all the other ones will continue to be there for a while.
Reviewed by John Donaldson
A few years ago Grandmaster Alex Shabalov was giving a lecture at the Mechanics' Institute Chess Club in San Francisco. When he finished his talk, Shabalov opened the floor to questions and the first was "What book do you recommend for someone who is ambitious to improve?" Shabalov said that normally this would be a hard question to answer without more information about the questioner's strengths and weaknesses, their age, how long they had been playing, how much time they had to study, etc, but that a recent book had made this all a moot point. The several time U.S. Champion recommended DVORETSKY'S ENDGAME MANUAL as that rare book that players of many different abilities could benefit from.
...
Highly Recommended
Reviewed by Jeremy Silman
There is no doubt that this is a great book, but who is it for? This is always the million-dollar question, and in this case I can say, “For everyone 1400 and up!” – with one caveat: If you intend to make a serious, intense, and prolonged study of the endgame, then this is the only book you'll need. However, if you only want to learn the basics, preferring to spend most of your time on openings, middlegames, tactics and whatnot, then DVORETSKY'S ENDGAME MANUAL might prove a bit overwhelming.
Reviewed by John Watson
DVORETSKY’S ENDGAME MANUAL is quite simply a masterpiece of research and insight. It is a tremendous contribution to endgame literature, certainly the most important one in many years, and destined to be a classic of the literature (if it isn’t already one). The famous trainer Mark Dvoretsky has put together a vast number of examples that he has not only collected, but analyzed and tested with some of the world’s strongest players. This is a particularly important book from the standpoint of clarifying, correcting, and extending the theory of endings. Most of all, Dvoretsky’s analysis is staggering in its depth and accuracy.
However, before discussing the specifics of DVORETSKY’S ENDGAME MANUAL [henceforth “DEM”], a word of warning is in order. I must emphasize that this is a terribly advanced work that I don’t think is a very good way for the average player to study the endgame. The majority of the examples are complex and position-specific, and neither the average student nor even strong masters will follow or play over most of the hundreds of positions that are given extensive analysis, not to mention the subvariations derived from those positions. Even when introducing “the basics”, Dvoretsky’s approach is often more complex than is necessary for an average student, and in any case such a thick book will seldom be used for the sake of elementary instruction. The majority of the other material is frankly very difficult. So take note: I don’t want to be blamed, in praising this book, for your purchasing something that you find intimidating, relatively dull, or otherwise unsatisfying. That said, if you are up to a real challenge and have a great deal of time to devote to reading and playing over examples you will inevitably derive great value from this work.
...
You can see the incredible detail that Dvoretsky goes into and his continual search for truth that leads to new or amended conclusions. This is an ultra-high-quality book. But is most of this particularly valuable for players up to 2200, or even 2400? Sure, a thorough study of each example would definitely improve one’s understanding, but that’s true for any complex position from any book. Perhaps the most accurate conclusion is that the stronger you are the more you will get from DEM. In my own teaching to average players I am still using Mueller and Lamprecht’s FUNDAMENTAL CHESS ENDINGS, which has a wonderful balance between Encyclopaedic coverage (I can find almost anything), examples that can be shortened at most points, and clear explanations that bring together endings of the same sort. To me it provides a simpler method for giving students both information and a sense of why they are proceeding as they are. In either case, it seems to me, a teacher’s guidance is preferable, but lacking it I would like to see students learning the fundamentals in a systematic and comprehensible way.
I read Dvoretsky's coverage of king and pawn endings and thought it was good. Then later, I studied some rook endings and found it harder to learn using Dvoretsky's book. So, in this case, I actually switched to reading Emm's book on rook endings and found I got more from that. Of course, this could be due to my level of ability, and maybe I wasn't ready for Dvoretsky's material (which I suspect is the case).
And Ponomariov shares his view on Dvoretsky books in general...
http://www.chessintranslation.com/2011/03/gm-ruslan-ponomariov-answers-your-questions-part-ii/
"Who are your two favourite chess authors apart from the most popular, Dvoretsky?
To be honest, I’ve never liked Dvoretsky’s books: they’re too academic, perhaps, and tough to take in. Botvinnik himself wrote about methods of preparation a long time before that, and much better."
Originally posted by Mad RookRec'd.
The reviews seem to be varied, hard to draw a conclusion on its usefulness to the average Joe from my perspective. From Silman's site:
Reviewed by John Donaldson
A few years ago Grandmaster Alex Shabalov was giving a lecture at the Mechanics' Institute Chess Club in San Francisco. When he finished his talk, Shabalov opened the floor to questions and ...[text shortened]... d like to see students learning the fundamentals in a systematic and comprehensible way.