16 Apr 07
Originally posted by TheGambitI've played him a number of games. Found him friendly and he totally out played me but I didn't get that feeling I get against an engine, that no matter what I do, I have no chance.
Me too, from reading many of his posts I think he's genuine (I can't say for sure as I don't know him), just happens to be a very good chess player. There should be some forum bans being dished out for some of the accusations that have been made, [b]without proof.
The offending posts should be deleted too, calling someone a cheat isn't much worse than cheating yourself, especially when you don't have a clue.[/b]
Despite our rating difference I felt that had I just played a little better I could have got a favorable result as some of his moves were not best - they were just better than mine!
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16 Apr 07
some forum bans being dished out for some of the accusations that have been made, without proof.Forum bans are indeed being applied. Please remember that cheating accusations are not welcome in the forums, and that any concerns should be sent to the game moderators (a list of whom can be found from the 'volunteers' tab on the 'site map' screen).
The offending posts should be deleted too, calling someone a cheat isn't much worse than cheating yourself, especially when you don't have a clue.[/b]
16 Apr 07
Originally posted by wormwoodI doubt it. I ckecked Everyday's other games when he took a week over the move in our 3/7 games (maybe in critical positiopns). He did move in all the other games. I guess he still had enough time left in the games against you.
damn it. I resigned 4 days prior to this timeouts. we would've tied for the next round in the star trek tournament. 😞
16 Apr 07
Originally posted by HindsteinIn the PMs AFTER the game he told me he had an UPCOMING operation and an UPCOMING exam. I then wished him good luck for both events. I was concerned about the outcome of the game and he reassured me it was no problem that he lost due to the timeout.
He was timed out whilst he was in Hospital recovering from an operation. Some users will go to any length to protect a 100% unbeaten record....
Please refrain from lying in the forums! ( I've been thinking a few minutes before posting this but I feel it must be said.)
Despite this it is true that I wanted to prolong my unbeaten record a few days by giving a couple of checks. Nothing wrong with it, I hope.
16 Apr 07
Originally posted by jfkjmhoh right. the 'hernia' which requires months in hospital (where he claims to have been making these gazillion of moves per day) instead of the usual from a couple of hours to a couple of days.
In the PMs AFTER the game he told me he had an UPCOMING operation and an UPCOMING exam. I then wished him good luck for both events. I was concerned about the outcome of the game and he reassured me it was no problem that he lost due to the timeout.
Please refrain from lying in the forums! ( I've been thinking a few minutes before posting this but I feel i ...[text shortened]... long my unbeaten record a few days by giving a couple of checks. Nothing wrong with it, I hope.
I guess he forgot he already had the operation.
16 Apr 07
Originally posted by jfkjmhI don't think that anything I posted was untrue.
In the PMs AFTER the game he told me he had an UPCOMING operation and an UPCOMING exam. I then wished him good luck for both events. I was concerned about the outcome of the game and he reassured me it was no problem that he lost due to the timeout.
Please refrain from lying in the forums! ( I've been thinking a few minutes before posting this but I feel i ...[text shortened]... long my unbeaten record a few days by giving a couple of checks. Nothing wrong with it, I hope.
He clearly had his vacation flag up and by taking the timeout, you were able to keep your (as then) unbeaten record. You would have lost in a few moves in one game. By prolonging the game with a few checks you increase the chance of your opponent (who you knew to be on vacation) losing on time.
I didn't say that you did anything wrong. A loss on time still counts and is part of the game, but to timeout you opponent when so close to the end must be quite a hollow victory for you.
In a game that was so clearly lost, in any other circumstance you probably would have resigned were it not for your unbeaten record. No?
16 Apr 07
Originally posted by Dragon FireOf course we all know how completely wrong your hunches have been in the past 🙂.
I've played him a number of games. Found him friendly and he totally out played me but I didn't get that feeling I get against an engine, that no matter what I do, I have no chance.
Despite our rating difference I felt that had I just played a little better I could have got a favorable result as some of his moves were not best - they were just better than mine!
16 Apr 07
Originally posted by HindsteinI used CAPITAL letters to show where you went wrong in the time frame.
I don't think that anything I posted was untrue.
He clearly had his vacation flag up and by taking the timeout, you were able to keep your (as then) unbeaten record...By prolonging the game with a few checks you increase the chance of your opponent ... losing on time.... In a game that was so clearly lost, in any other circumstance you probably would have resigned were it not for your unbeaten record. No?
Having had the whole family in hospital a little eralier, I would certainly NOT time out a player who has an upcoming operation. I simply did not know about it until AFTER the game. This is why I am angry with your other post which suggests this kind of behaviour from me. An operation is totally different from a vacation.
I have not denied that the unbeaten record did play a role, but I did not expect to get a win (in the posted game), I merely thought I could stay unbeaten for a little bit longer (which is exactly what happened).
Had it been either that I had been beaten beforehand or that he informed me of his operation earlier, the outcome would probably have been a different one.
Of course I am more proud of the other win against everyday then this "hollow" victory.
16 Apr 07
Originally posted by jfkjmhFair enough.
Having had the whole family in hospital a little eralier, I would certainly NOT time out a player who has an upcoming operation. I simply did not know about it until AFTER the game. This is why I am angry with your other post which suggests this kind of behaviour from me. An operation is totally different from a vacation.
Although, I thought that it was mentioned in his vacation statement, but I could be wrong on that.
16 Apr 07
Normally I wouldn't post anything, but since we're talking about EveryDay, I have to say that if anyone is a real 2300+ player here, it's him. He has proven that is all the games I had against him, before and after his operation...
A thing I don't get with some players, why is it that they need 100+ wins and zero loses to prove a point ? We all make mistakes and lose from time to time, and we all learn a little more about winning each time we lose a game.
17 Apr 07
Originally posted by tension84And what sort of analysis would lead you to this conclusion?
Normally I wouldn't post anything, but since we're talking about EveryDay, I have to say that if anyone is a real 2300+ player here, it's him. He has proven that is all the games I had against him, before and after his operation...
A thing I don't get with some players, why is it that they need 100+ wins and zero loses to prove a point ? We all make mist ...[text shortened]... se from time to time, and we all learn a little more about winning each time we lose a game.
Originally posted by Ramiri15There is no single characteristic that defines cheaters. I am sure you know some from your own life experiences.
And what sort of analysis would lead you to this conclusion?
I have unfortunately encountered very many engine users in matches in my experience in RHP; all that were banned were highly rated; many are now banned (I can think of 9 that I have played that are now banned) although I suspect a few engine users are not yet banned. They are of various ethnicities; they subscribe to different religions, and are from different countries. Based on their correspondence, some of them seem to be really nice and friendly people! A few claimed to be Christians, and I strongly suspect they were devout believers. Consider that there have been a few engine users in FAITHHOPELOVE. One banned engine user is a medical student. Another is a worker in IT. I suspect that another is a kid. I faced one who apparently has a very advanced education and great knowledge of current events. Some of them had some pretty sound knowledge of chess, and one even recognized when his engine erred and misplayed the position and later suggested an improvement in the postmortem. Some of the most outlandish cheats demonstrate a relatively proficient knowledge of chess (such as IronMan31).
Naturally most of them did not always choose first choice engine moves all the time. Most cheaters are usually not that stupid, although considering that they were banned for cheating, they were pretty inept cheaters as their moves must have very closely matched up with those of an engine!
Essentially an engine user, or one that is banned, demonstrates a lack in chess knowledge, and, of course, a high engine match-up that absolutely indicates engine use. I will not indicate here precisely how one may detect engine use; I think that is rather obvious to detect if you know what to look for, although very strong players are fooled by engines thinking that they are human all the time. Consider the case when Nigel Short being fooled into believing that an engine user was Fischer; he later retracted the claim after Fischer himself denied playing Short online. But think about this, do you really think that engine users will really play the best move in a position all the time? Or even, the best, or second-best, or third-best engine move? Or even engine assistance for all moves?
Why do they cheat? I presume self-esteem is the issue. The illusion exists that things happen for a reason; people try to justify an existence that is without known meaning or purpose, except for where one finds it. Sadly, people find some incentive, some purpose for cheating. Of course, engine use is not rational. But people believe in and do irrational things. Believing in the Christian God, or more broadly, believing in the supernatural, is not rational. Believing in an afterlife, or believing that one retains consciousness when one dies is not rational. Making this post and reading the forums is not rational. I do not benefit much from this post and I have more constructive ways of using my time. Yet I make this post anyway. Why? Because I choose to – in the hope that people are not deceived in the way that I have been in my experience.
Logical thinking is achieved when uses scientific methodologies of inquiry and experimentation. Nothing, whether religion, or one’s statements on a subject regardless of one’s expertise in that subject, should be above scientific inquiry. Therefore, it is bizarre when GM’s make arrogant proclamations such as refuting the Grob or claiming a bust for the KG. For some reason, people are often unwilling to consider ideas outside their own experience, but I suppose people must take comfort in illogical ideas and draw conclusions based on circumstantial evidence in order to preserve their sanity and maintain a sense of identity.
The confusing and frustrating thing to me is that I think people understand all this and still cheat.
So, consider the analysis, and only the analysis, when drawing a conclusion...
Originally posted by YugaI very much doubt that most of the banned cheaters were what they claimed to be. if you think about your regular internet trolls, most of them act some kind of a fictional role. I see no reason to think that the same wouldn't apply to cheaters. and actually, they quite often get caught from the role when their act slips. like 'jean hebert' writing in broken english, where as the real jean hebert is a journalist and a professional writer, proficient in english.
There is no single characteristic that defines cheaters. I am sure you know some from your own life experiences.
I have unfortunately encountered very many engine users in matches in my experience in RHP; all that were banned were highly rated; many are now banned (I can think of 9 that I have played that are now banned) although I suspect a few engine user ...[text shortened]... d still cheat.
So, consider the analysis, and only the analysis, when drawing a conclusion...
I don't think the cheaters look at it as getting respect for being strong players. that's a point of view with hardly any value for people who are not interested in getting better at chess. instead, I think they see the whole thing as a game, or a role playing game to be more accurate. create your character, say, a french speaking IM strength journalist from canada, and dive into the real live rpg in the web. which makes the actual chess games just a game inside the rpg, fun to score but still secondary for the rpg experience.
that would also explain how those guys can act the role for years if they're not exposed. because the usual explanation, just copying engine moves to beat other players for 'self-esteem', is a crappy game, and I doubt anyone can keep themselves interested in that for very long. maybe weeks, but definitely not years.
I also think many, if not most of them, come right back with a new character, when the old one gets the boot.
"game over - wanna try again?"
nothing they say will have any meaning, it's all just part of the role. the numbers are the only thing that matters, anything else can be faked.
17 Apr 07
Originally posted by KorchYou cannot take the moral high ground because someone is your buddy or countryman. Unless you know a players history, OTB rating , online chess etc you are not in a position to make such assertions.
I have been played with him and I still have games in progress against him and I can say for sure - he is not cheater.
Look at the post I gave in reply to Tebb, where a well known player who has won an event in St Petersburg was booted for cheating at PlayChess. Anyone could say "look xyz is a strong OTB player" but not be able to explain the "computer moves" in that situation.