24 May 05
Originally posted by bobbob1056thThanks for the info. I do know how to mate with B&N; I just thought against best play 50 moves was cutting it a bit fine. Of course, it could be that the approach I was taught could be refined. Let me try that.
Yes, it has. I believe the longest win is 33 moves. You can download a 4-man endgame database/tablebase for your chess program to analyze such positions. If you want me to I could find a website where you could download endgame databases.
Regards,
C.I.
24 May 05
Someone should ask Russ to change the 50-move rule on the site so if a special position occurs (ie mate on the 51st move) the game can't be declared a draw. The way this could work is if you are playing one of these special positions before playing your 50th move ask for assistance from an admin and they will make it impossible to claim a draw.
That reminds me. Does anyone know why there have been so many outages recently, like what improvements have been made to the site?
24 May 05
Originally posted by bobbob1056thThe rules to extend the 50 move rule in certain situations have been scrapped by FIDE. The 50 move rule always applies.
Someone should ask Russ to change the 50-move rule on the site so if a special position occurs (ie mate on the 51st move) the game can't be declared a draw. The way this could work is if you are playing one of these special positions before playing your 50th move ask for assistance from an admin and they will make it impossible to claim a draw.
That ...[text shortened]... why there have been so many outages recently, like what improvements have been made to the site?
24 May 05
Originally posted by bobbob1056thThe chances of ending up in a position that mates in over 50 moves is very small.
That makes things simple. I think it's ridiculous though.
I've never done it. I doubt more than a handful of the top players on this site have either. At lower levels it isn't a issue. How likely do you think it is that a 1200 player can put up best defense in a complex endgame like the ones that we're talking about? I know I'd struggle.
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24 May 05
1 edit
Originally posted by bobbob1056thFide got bored with tabulating the almost infinite posible exceptions to the 50 move rule and (in even more recent years) changed the rules back to just 50 moves allowed for a win in every case. If you have theoretically winning material - too bad.
I found this on the net:
"What's the 50-move rule? If a game continues 50 moves without a Pawn move or a capture, the game is drawn. That means 50 moves for White and 50 moves for Black.
In recent years the rules have been cha ...[text shortened]... ecified rules for these special positions, use the 50-move rule."
24 May 05
They wouldn't have to list all the possiblities in the rulebook-- all they'd have to do is judge each position that arises on an individual basis. Kinda like the referees do for letting a game be drawn when it's not by the rules (since players can't agree to a draw anymore without permission).
24 May 05
Originally posted by bobbob1056thThe no draws by agreement was for one tournament recently. It was won by Topalov.
They wouldn't have to list all the possiblities in the rulebook-- all they'd have to do is judge each position that arises on an individual basis. Kinda like the referees do for letting a game be drawn when it's not by the rules (since players can't agree to a draw anymore without permission).
This is a good example of the stuff you spout without actually knowing what you are talking about.
25 May 05
Originally posted by DeepThoughtYou are incorrect. A tablebase is NOT a database. A database gives moves made in prior games. A tablebase is a computer generated calculation of ALL possible winning moves; it is no different than turning Fritz or Shredder on to calculate how to win an endgame. Thus, tablebases are NOT allowed under the TOS.
Endgame tables are allowed. The terms of service state that books and databases are allowed, and endgame tables are essentially a database.
27 May 05
Originally posted by THUDandBLUNDERAm I missing something? It may take a few more moves because of the rook checks, but once the white king is at d8 (if the checks actually happen) it is a 'standard' position. My guess is that it would take between 30 and 40 moves in total, so safely within the 50-move limit, allowing for a few 'inaccuracies'.
Try playing this simple position as White against a tablebase.
[fen]K3r3/8/5k2/Q7/8/8/8/8[/fen]
28 May 05
Originally posted by Mephisto2Yes, it takes 35 - which is the longest shortest mate with Q+K v. R+K.
Am I missing something? It may take a few more moves because of the rook checks, but once the white king is at d8 (if the checks actually happen) it is a 'standard' position. My guess is that it would take between 30 and 40 moves in total, so safely within the 50-move limit, allowing for a few 'inaccuracies'.
But IMO few people could manage it within 50 moves.