Two variations interest me against the French as white: The advance variation (3.e5) and the KIA (2.d3 d5 3.Nd2) or (2.Nd2, but I believe this is the Tarrasch variation). Anybody have thoughts or experience with these 2 or 3 variations? I haven't faced the french often but would like to be prepared for it.
Thanks!
Originally posted by passedpawn22Those are two of my favorites as well. I almost always play the Advance variation. Unfortunately I'm not all that great at chess.
Two variations interest me against the French as white: The advance variation (3.e5) and the KIA (2.d3 d5 3.Nd2) or (2.Nd2, but I believe this is the Tarrasch variation). Anybody have thoughts or experience with these 2 or 3 variations? I haven't faced the french often but would like to be prepared for it.
Thanks!
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I play the French a lot as black. For my money:
1) The King's Indian attack is easiest to play as white. Playing it against the French is pretty straightforward. Results at the master level aren't awesome, but its fine for general play.
2) The advance variation is harder to play, if black knows what he's doing. Black can get viscious counter-attacks if you're not careful. You have to like locked up pawn structures, too. Still, high level results aren't too bad.
3) Tarrasch (1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3 Nd2) - leads to a lot more open positions. Lots of opening theory requiring some study if you're playing against someone familiar with it. IMO, a little easier to play than the advance variation.
Part of this decision goes into style. If you like closed, but fluid positions, KID, if you liked locked positions, Advance, if you like open/semi-open positions, Tarrasch.
Originally posted by zebano
As a french player, I can't stand the KIA. For some reason I always end up in passive positions (as black) while my white counterpart has long term pressure and a clear plan.
the idea is that on 12.Bh3 black must sacrifice a pawn (12.e5), (there is no good way to protect the pawn anyway), however he gets compensation in the form of some type of initiative and play for his pieces. maybe it will help if you find that you are getting into passive positions.
Originally posted by Erekosevery interesting, just what I was looking for! Thank to all for the replies.
I play the French a lot as black. For my money:
1) The King's Indian attack is easiest to play as white. Playing it against the French is pretty straightforward. Results at the master level aren't awesome, but its fine for general play.
2) The advance variation is harder to play, if black knows what he's doing. Black can get viscious counter-atta ...[text shortened]... D, if you liked locked positions, Advance, if you like open/semi-open positions, Tarrasch.
The following two repertoire books recommend the Advanced Variation against the French Defense:
An Attacking Repertoire for White by Sam Collins
An Opening Repertoire for the Attacking Player (2nd ed.) by Ray Keene and David Levy
In his Gambiteer I, Nigel Davies recommends a delayed Advanced Variation that turns into a Wing Gambit: 1 e4 e6 2 Nf3 d5 3 e5 c5 4 b4!?
Attacking with 1 e4 by John Emms recommends the KIA against the French Defense.
The King's Indian Attack can be played against all major defenses to 1 e4 except for 1...d5. Fischer played it often early in his career, and he apparently especially liked it against the French Defense since he would sometimes play it against the French even after he had stopped playing it against other defenses.
Originally posted by gaychessplayerWatch out, however, for annoying transpositions. For example, I tend to play 2. Nf3 against the sicilian, keeping a little flexibility against strange continuations )and also because I like to screw with my opponent's head and make them think for a move that I'm going into a normal open sicilian) and confident that I can just swing into the KIA after the normal 2. ... d6 (or Nc6) 3. d3. Recently someone played 2. ... d5 -- and suddenly I was stuck in some kind of bizarre scandanivian position with a pawn on c5, no way to keep my KIA going.
The King's Indian Attack can be played against all major defenses to 1 e4 except for 1...d5. Fischer played it often early in his career, and he apparently especially liked it against the French Defense since he would sometimes play it against the French even after he had stopped playing it against other defenses.
yes its good to wait and see what will happen. Fischer himself was an excellent example of this. as gaychesspalyer mentions he favored the KIA against the french when black had committed himself to e6. he felt that the absence of whites bishop on g4, being blockaded by the e pawn was favorable, and interestingly statistics seem to bear this out.
when facing the Sicilian he hung back only playing the kings Indian once black had committed himself to e6 after the initial c5 (his famous game against GM Sherwin when aged 14 is a good example), again for the same reasons as above, so like yourself if he opened 1.e4 ..c5, he waited with 2.Nf3 until he was certain that black would commit with 2..e6 and only then he would play 3.d3 and go into the KIA, otherwise he tended to play the open Sicilian in response to 2...d6 or 2...Nc6.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieDoes 11. ... Bxf6 work ? 12. Rxe6 Nde5 13. Nxe5 Nxe5 ?
[pgn]
[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Various"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]
[PlyCount "32"]
[EventDate "2006.03.29"]
1.e4 e6 2.d3 d5 3.Nd2 Nf6 4.g3 c5 5.Ngf3 Nc6 6.Bg2 Be7 7.O-O O-O 8.Re1 b5 9.e5 Nd7 10.Nf1 f6 11.exf6 Nxf6 12.Bh3 e5 13.Bxc8 Qxc8 14.Nxe5 Nxe5 15.Rxe5 Bd6 16.Re1 Qh3[/pgn]
the idea is that o ...[text shortened]... . maybe it will help if you find that you are getting into passive positions.
Just curious.
yes i think it works for black but taking with the rook on e6 seems a little risky from whites point of view as it gets trapped by Ne5! e.g. 11...Bxf6, 12.Rxe6 Nde5, 13. Rxf6 Qxf6 14.Nxe5 Nxe5, although white can win another pawn with 15.Bxd5 Be6, 16.Bxe6 Qxe6, 17.f4, so i dunno who is better, white is down the exchange but up two pawns ? perhaps that is why zeigler played Nxf6 to protect d5
Originally posted by robbie carrobieMaybe 13. ... gxf6 or at least 14. ... Qxe5 ... interesting line. I had always seen black go after queenside while white attacks on kingside (why f6 seems so out of place in the first place). I remember a lot of Fischer games with this line, even one with the black pieces against Bisguier. Soltis even recommends 1. d4 Nf6 2. e3 g6 3. Nf3 Bg7 4. Be2 0-0 followed by 0-0, c4, and b4 for white. It's a very double edged race. If white suceeds he gets the king. If black suceeds he gets week squares to work on. (And oh yeah his king lives.) 🙂 1. e4 e6 2. d3 d5 3. Nd2 c5 4. Ngf3 Nc6 5. g3 Bd6 6. Bg2 Nge7 is interesting too. The really worrysome lines are early dxe4 lines. Something like 1. e4 e6 2. d3 d5 3. Nd2 Nf6 4. Ngf3 dxe4 5. dxe4 Bc5 is pesty. The pawn structure is symmetrical and there is no time for the thematic g3. Very Drawish
yes i think it works for black but taking with the rook on e6 seems a little risky from whites point of view as it gets trapped by Ne5! e.g. 11...Bxf6, 12.Rxe6 Nde5, 13. Rxf6 Qxf6 14.Nxe5 Nxe5, although white can win another pawn with 15.Bxd5 Be6, 16.Bxe6 Qxe6, 17.f4, so i dunno who is better, white is down the exchange but up two pawns ? perhaps th ...[text shortened]... Rxf6 Qxf6 14. Nxe5 Nxe5 15.Bxd5+ Be6 16.Bxe6+ Qxe6 17.f4 Ng4 18.Bd2 Rad8 19.Qf3 Nf6 20.Be3[/pgn]
Originally posted by paulbuchmanfromficsyes this line with 5...Bd6 is incredibly interesting, if black plays f6 he has the standard french center and white is left with an isolated queen pawn, for example
Maybe 13. ... gxf6 or at least 14. ... Qxe5 ... interesting line. I had always seen black go after queenside while white attacks on kingside (why f6 seems so out of place in the first place). I remember a lot of Fischer games with this line, even one with the black pieces against Bisguier. Soltis even recommends 1. d4 Nf6 2. e3 g6 3. Nf3 Bg7 4 sty. The pawn structure is symmetrical and there is no time for the thematic g3. Very Drawish