31 Aug 12
Originally posted by AldanExactly, don't just give in (resign), but try to get something out of the situation (draw or even a win). How much you can expect to get out of the situation would vary.
...when representing a client when the case is hopeless, I advise plea bargain in a criminal case and settle in a civil case...
31 Aug 12
Originally posted by VarenkaI don't see what's the problem. Personally I would never play on as white - I'd resign long before. But I don't have any problem to play it on as black. For sure I wouldn't complain about it in the forums.
On RHP we see games like the following getting played out... Black was 1800+, White 1500+...
[fen]6k1/2K5/pp5p/6pq/P7/2P4P/6P1/4q3[/fen]
Do you think this can be justified by presenting a theoretically won position such as B+N mate that Philidor (and more recently Dvoretsky, etc.) felt a need to document?
I believe the OP was referring to positions such as the above, so you should address those sort of positions.
31 Aug 12
Originally posted by VarenkaIf this position is dragged on more than three moves, I would blame black.
On RHP we see games like the following getting played out... Black was 1800+, White 1500+...
[fen]6k1/2K5/pp5p/6pq/P7/2P4P/6P1/4q3[/fen]
Do you think this can be justified by presenting a theoretically won position such as B+N mate that Philidor (and more recently Dvoretsky, etc.) felt a need to document?
I believe the OP was referring to positions such as the above, so you should address those sort of positions.
01 Sep 12
"Except that with White to move, the best Black can force is mate in 4. "
Agreed.
But with White to play Black can stalemate White in 3 moves.
mpccsec (Highest RHP grade1730) -v-aquib (Highest RHP Grade 1600!) RHP 2010
Game 7970298
Got loads more like these.
I've got a Clan Challenge where one lad had 4 Queens v a lone King and stalemated him.
Game 4569754
Nobody ever won (or drew) by resigning.
99% of the lads playing out a game do so because it's their free choice
and they are well within the ruless of the game. They are not sulking.
Sulking is a different matter all together.
Sulking is when you are lost (and know it) and use the full time allowance
without going into the time bank and then making one move.
(meanwhile you make muliple moves a day in all your other games.)
You keep doing this until you are one move from getting checkmated and then
you hoist the vacation flag.
When the vacation flag falls you then let the game time out so he does even
get the pleasure of sending a checkmate.
Properly done a good sulker can make a lost game last a year.
I can't see me defending a sulker but there is always a reason behind it,
it does not happen out of the blue. Sometimes a PM or an in game message
will kick one off. Be careful what you send....or post in a forum. 😉
01 Sep 12
Originally posted by greenpawn34I would rather resign than get a draw like that.
"Except that with White to move, the best Black can force is mate in 4. "
[fen]6k1/2K5/pp5p/6pq/P7/2P4P/6P1/4q3 w - - 0 1[/fen]
Agreed.
But with White to play Black can stalemate White in [b]3 moves.
[pgn]
[FEN "6k1/2K5/pp5p/6pq/P7/2P4P/6P1/4q3 w - - 0 1"]
1. g4 Qxc3+ {Grabs a pawn with check.} 2. Kxb6 Qb3+ {Now chases the King into a ma ...[text shortened]... game message
will kick one off. Be careful what you send....or post in a forum. 😉[/b]
01 Sep 12
Originally posted by AldanWar is war.
I deem it very bad manners and insulting for a player who has an obviously lost position to play on in the forlorn hope that his adversary will commit a childish blunder. RHP appears to approve and institutionalize these bad manners in the posted diagrams of checkmates appearing on the home page as almost all of these diagrammed checkmates involve games wit ...[text shortened]... as to indicate that the games had been lost many moves before the checkmate. What to you think?
01 Sep 12
Originally posted by greenpawn34>> But with White to play Black can stalemate White in 3 moves.
"Except that with White to move, the best Black can force is mate in 4. "
[fen]6k1/2K5/pp5p/6pq/P7/2P4P/6P1/4q3 w - - 0 1[/fen]
Agreed.
But with White to play Black can stalemate White in [b]3 moves.
[pgn]
[FEN "6k1/2K5/pp5p/6pq/P7/2P4P/6P1/4q3 w - - 0 1"]
1. g4 Qxc3+ {Grabs a pawn with check.} 2. Kxb6 Qb3+ {Now chases the King into a ma ...[text shortened]... game message
will kick one off. Be careful what you send....or post in a forum. 😉[/b]
You tried to contrive a "help stalemate" and even then failed to do so, since your line doesn't end in stalemate. And that's you choosing the moves for both sides! 🙂
Originally posted by iruIt doesn't matter whether or not you think it's "bad manners" that's a different argument. The whole premise that nothing can be "bad manners" simply because you managed to gain something from your action ( or inaction ) is flawed.
I've heard some stories about IMs and NMs being unable to deliver mate with bishop and knight within 50 moves. Did their opponents display "bad manners" by not resigning in theoretically lost positions?
01 Sep 12
Originally posted by thaughbaerIf swindling a draw or win from a lost position instead of resigning is bad manners, then I'm one uncivilized SOB. 😛
It doesn't matter whether or not you think it's "bad manners" that's a different argument. The whole premise that nothing can be "bad manners" simply because you managed to gain something from your action ( or inaction ) is flawed.
01 Sep 12
But that is what this whole row is about (again.)
Is it bad manners to play on knowing you are lost and need a blunder to win or draw?
I'm saying you can play on because there is no rule that says you must resign.
Also some on here think the only natural conclussion to a game is to play on
to the checkmate and may regard resignation as a form of bad manners.
Some will even 'reward' their opponent by allowing the mate.
If someone played a good combo against me then I would let the mate appear.
And in the reverse I was often disappointed when my opponent resigned
because I was not allowed to play out the full combo.
(Fischer also mentions this in his 60 games when a player resigns too soon.)
If some think their skill at chess is being insulted by a player not resigning
then so be it. I would advise they take themselves far too seriously and
need to lighten up a bit. It's only a game.