07 Nov 09
Originally posted by orion25To your point, in my aforementioned OTB tournament I had reasonable, playable positions in both games, although I did not get an advantage out of the opening. Even though I was "winging" it, the English is very flexible, and it is easy to find reasonable moves, even if they aren't the theoretically best. I won both my games, but it was because I was higher rated, and it turns out the other players didn't even know they had transposed to the Sicilian, so we were all "winging it"!
okok, seems I may have overstepped a little. It is hard to master. But easy against anyone who isn't a master. The point I was trying to make is that in my opinion it is easier, simpler, than d4 systems or e4 systems. But maybe that is just a matter of taste, and not easyiness.
Paul
07 Nov 09
Originally posted by Paul Leggettyep, that is exactly what I ment. It is not so much that it is easy to find the best moves, but it is not difficult to find good moves. The moves just stare at you, they jump up to you begging to be played. I admit, this is not mastering the opening. But still who here devotes any time at mastering an opening? If you do you are wasting your time. I've never studied openings (note: serious study), and still I have no problems defeating most players my current level.
To your point, in my aforementioned OTB tournament I had reasonable, playable positions in both games, although I did not get an advantage out of the opening. Even though I was "winging" it, the English is very flexible, and it is easy to find reasonable moves, even if they aren't the theoretically best. I won both my games, but it was because I was h ...[text shortened]... didn't even know they had transposed to the Sicilian, so we were all "winging it"!
Paul
As for those who find it strange a 1600 is saying something is easy. Well, understanding chess (at my, and your level(s)) is easy.
07 Nov 09
1 edit
Originally posted by trev33even though you are misunderstanding what I say, I accept the chalange, under 7/14 time control, as I already have too many games running.
huh, really?
fancy a game? i play black... you play the english?
I can't challenge as you have a self-imposed maximum of 12 games
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07 Nov 09
Originally posted by orion25i think i know what you're saying... that you have to think less when playing the english before getting to the middle game? we'll see, i hadn't played against the english in ages but i used to play it quite often... always got into 50/50 drawish positions with it so don't playing it.
even though you are misunderstanding what I say, I accept the chalange, under 7/14 time control, as I already have too many games running.
I can't challenge as you have a self-imposed maximum of 12 games
anyway, i sent the game over. 7/14 is perfect for me as well.
24 Nov 09
I'd like to point out a small innaccuracy of one of Paul's posts. In the English, against someone who knows what they're doing, I doubt that 1...f5 or 1...e5 and 2...f5 is a good way to go. Most good English players (and Dutch Players) know that White should exploit the fact that he hasn't played d4 yet by playing d3 and e4, and only later d4. Given that it's normally a problem for Black if White gets in e4 in the Dutch, the Dutch isn't commonly played against the English because it's too easy for White to get e4 in. Similarly, against 1. c4 e5 2. g3 for instance, 2...f5 isn't particularly great for Black on account of 3. d4!, when ...e4 will leave Black having to deal with f3 at some point, when he'll probably end up slightly worse, and won't reach an easy Dutch like position. 3...exd4 is similar after 4. Qxd4 Nc6 5. Qe3+!, which is known to cause some problems. For instance, Ivar Bern, a World CC Champion and a well known exponent of the Dutch Stonewall, wrote in his new book that he won't play ...f5 against the English. 😀
24 Nov 09
Originally posted by JonathanB of LondonI have the same feeling. But then I say to myself that you don't have to understand chess, you just have to play it. 🙂
I'm not so sure about that. I've found the higher my rating is the more I realise I don't fully understand what I'm doing.
I'd suggest that not understanding chess is the easy bit.
Just like a housewife doesn't have to understand how exactly a vacuum cleaner works. She just has to know how to use it ...
24 Nov 09
Originally posted by !~TONY~!As an English player, I agree. The system you talk about is the botvinnik system and it would give white an easy game versus an early ...f5. Not winning, but I'd know what to do and black would probably be fighting for a draw. I might be wrong though, I don't exactly fall in the ''someone who knows what they're doing'' category.
I'd like to point out a small innaccuracy of one of Paul's posts. In the English, against someone who knows what they're doing, I doubt that 1...f5 or 1...e5 and 2...f5 is a good way to go. Most good English players (and Dutch Players) know that White should exploit the fact that he hasn't played d4 yet by playing d3 and e4, and only later d4. Given that it ...[text shortened]... tch Stonewall, wrote in his new book that he won't play ...f5 against the English. 😀
25 Nov 09
Originally posted by !~TONY~!Thanks for the post and warning! I've played the Classical and the Leningrad Dutch against the English, but I almost always play 2. ... Nf6 (which scored much better after 1.c4 f5 2. d3, lucky for me) because I prefer not to give away which way I'm going to go with the opening. I even had a Master chastise me in a game once (after he beat me) because I did not play ...e5 early against his English.
I'd like to point out a small innaccuracy of one of Paul's posts. In the English, against someone who knows what they're doing, I doubt that 1...f5 or 1...e5 and 2...f5 is a good way to go. Most good English players (and Dutch Players) know that White should exploit the fact that he hasn't played d4 yet by playing d3 and e4, and only later d4. Given that it ...[text shortened]... tch Stonewall, wrote in his new book that he won't play ...f5 against the English. 😀
Now I get some solace knowing that even if I had, I would have lost anyway!
I think I have avoided walking into this mess purely by accident! I even checked Simon William's "Play the Classical Dutch" and Neil McDonald's "Starting Out" the Dutch" and they don't even cover it, so this would be an excellent weapon for an English player.
I learn from this site even between games, it seems!
Paul