Originally posted by CenterNutI have never heard of a correspondence chess site or organization which prohibits books and databases. FIDE Law, as I recall, permits their use in correspondence competition. So you are incorrect: in a real match it would be allowed.
only on this site.. in real match it wouldn't be allowed.
i did just find this
Article 15: The Conduct Of The Players
15.1 Prohibitions:
(a)
During play, the players are forbidden to make use of hand-written, printed or otherwise recorded matter, or to analyse the game on another chessboard. They are also forbidden to have recourse to the advice of a third party, whether solicited or not.
[The only possible exception is that a player in a team competition may be allowed to ask his captain "Should I accept his offer of a draw?" or "Does the team need me to play for a win?". The captain or acting-captain must limit his reply to an immediate "Yes", "No", or "It's up to you", without supplying his answer after a detailed analysis of the position, and without making his answer emphatic in any way. This captain, like all his players, is not allowed to receive opinions, from any source, on the states of play of any games still in progress] .
(b)
The use of notes made during the game as an aid to memory is also forbidden, aside from the actual recording of the moves and the times on the clocks.
(c)
No analysis is permitted in the playing rooms during play or during resumption sessions.
(d)
It is forbidden to distract or annoy the opponent in any manner whatsoever. This includes the persistent offering of a draw.
Originally posted by CenterNutYou are confusing two separate questions. Whether it makes one a stronger or weaker player is one question. Whether it is cheating is another.
to me it's like having the answer to the exam.. if you feal like you're not cheating. more fool you. in blitz game you would be crushed..
To the former question I give no answer, and neither will I argue about it; if you don't like it, don't do it. To the latter question I gave an answer, fully justified by the fact that use of books and/or databases in correspondence chess does not break the rules; if you don't like it, don't do it.
There's nothing for you and I to argue about any more. It is a provable fact that it is not cheating, so you can't argue with me there. And I never said book/database use makes you better, so you can't argue with me there.
you're talking double dutch.. one minute you say FIDE law allows it.. i prove you wrong and now you trying to twist it.. im not going to argu with you.. and btw I dont use opening books or databases.. I learn though my own initiative.. I'm not going to argu with somebody who twist things and talks double dutch.. I rest my case. Yes opening books are allowed on this site it says so in the FAQ's but like I say.. it is like having the answers to the exam.. if you feal like you're not cheating.. thats your decession. my opionion is my opinion and will stick to it..
Originally posted by CenterNutwhere does it say it's about correspondence chess?
you're talking double dutch.. one minute you say FIDE law allows it.. i prove you wrong and now you trying to twist it.. im not going to argu with you.. and btw I dont use opening books or databases.. I learn though my own initiative.. I'm not going to argu with somebody who twist things and talks double dutch.. I rest my case. Yes opening books are allo ...[text shortened]... ke you're not cheating.. thats your decession. my opionion is my opinion and will stick to it..
Originally posted by CenterNut
you're talking double dutch.. one minute you say FIDE law allows it.. i prove you wrong and now you trying to twist it..
Hogwash. You have made references to over-the-board rules, which are irrelevant to this thread.
I was mistaken, though. FIDE does not specify any rules for correspondence chess, except regulations for the commissioning of correspondence titles.
It makes no difference to my case that FIDE does not cover correspondence. But it makes a huge difference to yours. You can quote over-the-board rules as much as you want, but in correspondence chess books and databases are allowed and have always been allowed. It most certainly is not limited to this site, as you maintain. I have played on at least five correspondence chess sites, all of which permit consultation of books and databases, in accordance with the rules of correspondence chess.
im not going to argu with you..
I bet I can prove that wrong 🙂
and btw I dont use opening books or databases.. I learn though my own initiative..
Whether database and book use helps one learn is a separate question from whether it is cheating. I state that it is not cheating, but I have not attempted to answer the other question.
I'm not going to argu with somebody who twist things and talks double dutch.. I rest my case. Yes opening books are allowed on this site it says so in the FAQ's but like I say.. it is like having the answers to the exam..
There's a big problem with your "exam" analogy. It only works if you pre-suppose that using books is not permitted. Having the answers before an exam is cheating only because it's not permitted. Using books or databases in correspondence chess is not cheating, because it is permitted. You're begging the question.
if you feal like you're not cheating.. thats your decession.
If I feel like I'm not cheating? Why would I be cheating? Did you get the impression that I am using books and databases? I never said that.
I only said that it is permissable. And it is. So even if I am using books and databases, I'm not cheating.
my opionion is my opinion and will stick to it..
Your tenacity is evident.
hehe 😀 ok i'll tell you why I dont like playing against books & databases, it's becuase it's not like im playing one person.. but a whole team of GM's, the people who create these books and such things spend years reseaching millions of combinations, and patterns, it's normanly a club of players who create such things. so ineffect im playing a team of players and not one person.
Originally posted by CenterNutbut you can also have your own team of GM's. 🙂
hehe 😀 ok i'll tell you why I dont like playing against books & databases, it's becuase it's not like im playing one person.. but a whole team of GM's, the people who create these books and such things spend years reseaching millions of combinations, and patterns, it's normanly a club of players who create such things. so ineffect im playing a team of players and not one person.
Originally posted by CenterNutYou're not allowed an analysis board in OTB chess either. Although I'm coming round to the idea that you should be...
you're talking double dutch.. one minute you say FIDE law allows it.. i prove you wrong and now you trying to twist it.. im not going to argu with you.. and btw I dont use opening books or databases.. I learn though my own initiative.. I ...[text shortened]... s your decession. my opionion is my opinion and will stick to it..
This comes up every now and again. Correspondence games take ages, games can last anything from 3 days to months. You can hardly expect people not to look at their chess books in the mean time, and in any case the difficulty in enforcing it would be too great. Not using books is a reasonable decision, plenty of people do fine doing that with the additional reward of "having done it themselves". I decided to use books because I'm inerested in playing the positions you get when people play the opening "correctly", also I play chess under OTB rules as well and get enough practice at making it up. To use an opening book effectively you have to be able to cope when your opponent deviates, and just because the book doesn't give a move, it doesn't mean it's tactically refutable or any particular disadvantage to them, it may even be a novelty.
Databases give moves because they've been played, not because they are neccessarily any good, so I've seen continuations from opponents M.C.O. gives as +/- for me where either they'd played the main line up to that point quite deeply, for example Game 981936 my opponent played 11. Bxf6 - either he wasn't using a book or got the move from a database because it is plausible but incorrect. The continuation 12. Bxb5 is from the book [M.C.O. 14th ed. p.245 col. 7 footnote b] but it just says +/- so after that I had to work out why I had an advantage for myself and find a way of pressing it home. I've seen 11. gxf6 which is also given as disadvantageous, but never Nxf6 which is the "book move" and perfectly playable - you just end up having to move it again after g5 which is what I assume puts most people off. Since it is possible to remember a lot of opening lines fairly deeply and with a high level of accuracy and it is possible to make errors using books as well - it isn't really that different to playing OTB chess, the point where your knowledge of lines ends is pushed back but at some point you're on your own. The nature of the struggle changes to who does better research and who can play the resulting position better.
There are free databases available on the internet, one at www.chesslab.com; but do not use the analysis tool for games that are in progress - using engines is cheating as there really wouldn't be much point if players were in a position to get through games without any descision making what so ever.
International Correspondence Chess Federation: http://www.iccf.com/
Anyway, if you want to play without books and databases, post in 'Meet Opponents' and specify that you wish to play without aid. Several players on this site feels the same way you do; you should have no problem finding a 'clean' game.