29 Aug 08
Originally posted by Mephisto2I guess it makes a difference if an opponent is very short of time.
Let's agree to disagree, and I would certainly do the same as you do in real life situations, the question here was just where is the borderline. As said before, this is like a discussion about the gender of angels, lol. My point was simply: why is it necessary to complete a move, or stop your clock when the game is over before that? The difference in inte ...[text shortened]... not occur before the end of a move (and that part about the clock is a clear example of that).
If an opponent pushes a pawn to the 8th and stops the clock cos they claim it is mate, then their opponent has every right to restart the clock.
In such a circumstance their flag might fall, and they would have lost on time.
29 Aug 08
Originally posted by RedmikeYes, but Mephisto is claiming in this case that merely pushing the pawn [without adding a promoted piece] is checkmate, which takes precedence over the flag falling.
I guess it makes a difference if an opponent is very short of time.
If an opponent pushes a pawn to the 8th and stops the clock cos they claim it is mate, then their opponent has every right to restart the clock.
In such a circumstance their flag might fall, and they would have lost on time.
Apparently, under his interpretation, if all legal moves with a certain piece give mate, then merely touching the piece is sufficient to give checkmate.
29 Aug 08
1 edit
Originally posted by SwissGambiti think thats logical.
Yes, but Mephisto is claiming in this case that merely pushing the pawn [without adding a promoted piece] is checkmate, which takes precedence over the flag falling.
Apparently, under his interpretation, if all legal moves with a certain piece give mate, then merely touching the piece is sufficient to give checkmate.
"IF" a piece is touched, it must be moved.
"IF" all of a pieces possible moves produce checkmate
"THEN" the only possibility is checkmate
and "THEREFORE" by touching the piece, there "MUST" be checkmate.
29 Aug 08
Originally posted by NowakowskiAgreed, but it is not complete until the move is complete. If merely moving that piece will cause checkmate, then the only possible outcome of touching that piece is checkmate IF the move is completed within the time constraints.
i think thats logical.
"IF" a piece is touched, it must be moved.
"IF" all of a pieces possible moves produce checkmate
"THEN" the only possibility is checkmate
and "THEREFORE" by touching the piece, there "MUST" be checkmate.
29 Aug 08
Originally posted by MrHandSo, now the question is
Agreed, but it is not complete until the move is complete. If merely moving that piece will cause checkmate, then the only possible outcome of touching that piece is checkmate IF the move is completed within the time constraints.
IF a move is started, and is FORCED to finish, (due to touching) is the process of the move punishable by time?
When their is no other choice after a touch, it seems like the game should continue with the move, as it is the games rules that state you must move it. Once the only possible move is made with the touched piece, then the game should end as time killed it.
This idea is present in several games (non-board)...look at American Football.
29 Aug 08
Originally posted by NowakowskiIt is also the player's responsibility to demonstrate that they can play legal moves - this is not taken as an assumption, and hence the rules cover cases of illegal moves, etc.
i think thats logical.
"IF" a piece is touched, it must be moved.
"IF" all of a pieces possible moves produce checkmate
"THEN" the only possibility is checkmate
and "THEREFORE" by touching the piece, there "MUST" be checkmate.
How far would you extend your logic? In the following position, if Black played Bh6+ and White's flag then immediately fell, would you consider anything other than a win for Black? "Logic" dictates that White must checkmate Black on the next move. And what if White only touched the rook on a6 and then his flag fell? Of course, in each case Black wins. I think the same applies to the earlier promotion example - the moves must be played in full.