Originally posted by mateuloseI'm thinking it was luck (please don't flame me on this, sometimes you do get lucky), that every natural single queen attack move by white ended up being decisive, it's rare this happens, especially in a closed opening like that.
Xanthos, I am a positional player aswell, and to be honest, playing g6 after an e6 isn't usually a good idea. The point of e6 is to develop the bishop on that diagonal, by playing g6, and fianchettoing it, you have vulnerable dark squares. Fianchettoing your king's bishop totally annihalates the point of e6 to begin with. As for the Ne5 white move, this ...[text shortened]... AND WAIT, until white may never play d4 until the game gets some spark, then forget about it...
Or maybe he was better than you. It happens.
And where pre-tell, should that bishop go, if not on a6? After his bishop captures my knight
It's pray tell (as in please tell me) not pre-tell. I find in the sicilian games I play the queenside bishop is always black's last developed piece. There are exceptions of course, just like any good rule, but I find that usually that bishop stays at home for a while.
If you want to influence the centre then your best bet may be ...e5, take your share of the centre and contest it. Find some lines in the Ruy and the Italian (or play the Petroff) you like and go to town.
Originally posted by XanthosNZDoes that actually mean there was something he could have done? Other than whine about it...
Be7 was bad because it allowed Ne5, that's not 7 moves in the future that's the next move. I wouldn't have seen the tactics coming straight after Be7 however when you allow a knight in the centre like that there are bound to be tactics coming. I'm a more positional player so that just screams pain to me. Also the tactics that come later don't happen w ...[text shortened]... t as in the meantime white prepared the centre with d3 which also made your bishop move useless.
Originally posted by mateuloseafter e4-c5 -nc3 its best to try and play d5 like in almost all siccilian variations. so you shoud play e6 followed by d5 giving you a good chance of equality!
God, I hate the Rossolimo anti-Sicilian attack. It's one reason to avoid playing c5 IMHO. Anyways, in this game on Gameknot, I don't really know what I did wrong. The game says 40 moves, but don't let that fool you, it was lost at move 10, and I defended the whole game. That queen move on move 10 shocked me, it seemed noobish to go queen marauding in th ...[text shortened]... Qe7
35. Rxf7, Qa3
36. Qxe6, Qc1+
37. Qe1, Qb2
38. Rxa7, Ng4
39. Qe4+, Kh6
40. Qf4+,
Originally posted by mateulose"God, I hate the Rossolimo anti-Sicilian attack" Is that so? 🙂 The feeling is mutual but what to do?
God, I hate the Rossolimo anti-Sicilian attack. It's one reason to avoid playing c5 IMHO. Anyways, in this game on Gameknot, I don't really know what I did wrong. The game says 40 moves, but don't let that fool you, it was lost at move 10, and I defended the whole game. That queen move on move 10 shocked me, it seemed noobish to go queen marauding in th ...[text shortened]... Qe7
35. Rxf7, Qa3
36. Qxe6, Qc1+
37. Qe1, Qb2
38. Rxa7, Ng4
39. Qe4+, Kh6
40. Qf4+,
The pure Rossolimo goes 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5. What you are showing in your game is a mutant of a much more dangerous kind because. Black is thinking "This moron needs to push the c-pawn and blocks it with knight... Hahahahaha!" But moron has a different idea by doing 2.Nc3 instead of 2.Nf3: To be able to do a Grand Prix or a Rossolimo without commiting himself to a particular set up.
What is worse, some players even go like this: 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.b3 with very similar ideas to the Rossolimo and the Grand Prix. I know, it is thrashy and cowardly but extremmely irritating for Black.
Believe it or not I have had the position after 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Bb5 in my mind, on my board and on a printed diagram trying to come up with some decent way of treating this piece of madness... Yes, horrible but deserving utmost respect... What to do? What to do?
I don't know...
Originally posted by AThousandYoungIn response to Alopinto, I still maintain that either 3...Nd4 or 3...Qc7 followed by 4..a6 makes his Bb5 move look a little out of place. In response to you, not played Nc6 until you play a6 is a pretty bad idea. This basically means that you propose that against the normal Sicilian Main Line you want Black to play:
What to do? Don't develop Nc6 until you've pushed a6.
1. e4 c5
2. Nf3 a6??
where either ..Nc6, ..e6, or ..d6 gets played. Ok, ok, this is not against 2. Nc3, but the same idea applies. In this line you are insinuating that you should forego the normal plan of ..g6, ..Bg7, and ..d6, in favor of ..a6. This is way off. I think the only other plan in the closed is when Black plays for the straight ..d5 push, when he plays something like ..e6, and to follow d5. The move ..a6 is completely off in this line and looses a tempo for white. I think you are pretty wrong here. I don't want this post to come off like me sounding like a jerk, I just want to prove my pt. Thanks!
Originally posted by !~TONY~!'I don't want this post to come off like me sounding like a jerk, I just want to prove my pt. Thanks!' <-- You? Never! 😀 Take it easy! 🙂
In response to Alopinto, I still maintain that either 3...Nd4 or 3...Qc7 followed by 4..a6 makes his Bb5 move look a little out of place. In response to you, not played Nc6 until you play a6 is a pretty bad idea. This basically means that you propose that against the normal Sicilian Main Line you want Black to play:
1. e4 c5
2. Nf3 a6??
where eith ...[text shortened]... 't want this post to come off like me sounding like a jerk, I just want to prove my pt. Thanks!
Allow me:
1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Bb5 Nd4 looks a bit clumsy to me because White just moves the bishop to c4 asking Black 'what was that demonstration for?' What would be the point of a6 after this? I fail to see it...
This is apparently the way fishes like Morozevich, Tiviakov and Svidler 🙂 do it and the variation has quite a nice record [ past ten years, rating>2300 search parameters in www.chessbase.com ] I have seen the Nd4 move and I don't think that's the answer...
Now, on 3...Qc7 play what do you do against 4.Nd5? The knight is already asking the queen what to do and yet another tempo will be lost... Again, I have seen the 3...Qc7 move and I don't think that's the answer...
In regards to this (although is none of my business): 'In response to you [AThousandlives or something like that...] , not played Nc6 until you play a6 is a pretty bad idea. This basically means that you propose that against the normal Sicilian Main Line you want Black to play: 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 a6??'
If I am right I believe that this is a legit variation of the Sicilian called the O'Kelly variation. Since I don't play that (and will not) I can't and will not say anything about it but the fact that O'Kelly played it and this sequence of moves got a place in opening books, should make you question the premise that playing a6 before Nc6 is a pretty bad idea.
Many thanks for your attention to this matter... If I ever come with a satisfactory answer to this 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Bb5 I will let you know...
1 edit
Originally posted by AlopintoThe line 1 e4 c5 2 Nc3 Nc6 3 Bb5 is actually getting played quite often lately in tournaments in the databases I have access to; somebody must have wrote a pamphlet or something. An interesting idea against it is 3 ..... Na5 as in Tan v. Hamdouchi, Montpleier, Fra. where the idea is simply to avoid the doubled pawns and then play 4 ..... a6, chasing the Bishop. Hey, give it a whirl!!
'I don't want this post to come off like me sounding like a jerk, I just want to prove my pt. Thanks!' <-- You? Never! 😀 Take it easy! 🙂
Allow me:
1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Bb5 Nd4 looks a bit clumsy to me because White just moves t ...[text shortened]... answer to this 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Bb5 I will let you know...
1 edit
Originally posted by no1marauder" An interesting idea against it is 3 ..... Na5 as in Tan v. Hamdouchi, Montpleier, Fra. where the idea is simply to avoid the doubled pawns and then play 4 ..... a6, chasing the Bishop. "
The line 1 e4 c5 2 Nc3 Nc6 3 Bb5 is actually getting played quite often lately in tournaments in the databases I have access to; somebody must have wrote a pamphlet or something. An interesting idea against it is 3 ..... Na5 ...[text shortened]... d then play 4 ..... a6, chasing the Bishop. Hey, give it a whirl!!
I have never seen that one but will check it out and see if it is worth trying...
EDIT:
OK, I am impressed. Where did you find that recipe? What is bothering me now is that I don't see a sound way to fianchetto the king side [ Sorry... I must do that otherwise it wouldn't be me... ] because I hate those Sicilians with e6 d6 a6 Nc6 Nf6 * ugh! * etc. and I really want to fianchetto the king bishop...
I think that in the end I will stick to the program because of my stylistic preference: Play 3...g6 and learn how to play with the doubled pawns [ It is not that terrible... ]
Originally posted by AlopintoNot sure if it's where No.1 got it from, but this months New in Chess has an article devoted to 3...Na5. Zdenko Kozul plays it a lot, and they base the article on a few of his games.
" An interesting idea against it is 3 ..... Na5 as in Tan v. Hamdouchi, Montpleier, Fra. where the idea is simply to avoid the doubled pawns and then play 4 ..... a6, chasing the Bishop. "
I have never seen that one but will check it out and see if it is worth trying...
EDIT:
OK, I am impressed. Where did you find that recipe?
Incidentally if you play Nc6 and e6 in the Open Sicilian, inverting the moves with 2..e6 avoids the whole issue of doubled Qside pawns as 3.Bb5 is met by 3...Nge7.
Originally posted by AlopintoSee last edition of New In Chess magazine (recommended generally) for an article on this wacky-looking line.
" An interesting idea against it is 3 ..... Na5 as in Tan v. Hamdouchi, Montpleier, Fra. where the idea is simply to avoid the doubled pawns and then play 4 ..... a6, chasing the Bishop. "
I have never seen that one but will check it out and see if it is worth trying...
EDIT:
OK, I am impressed. Where did you find that recipe? What is botherin ...[text shortened]... ference: Play 3...g6 and learn how to play with the doubled pawns [ It is not that terrible... ]
Being a 2...e6 kinda guy, I don't have to worry too much about 3.Bb5, so I didn't look at it too closely.
Originally posted by AlopintoI response to the 4. Bc4 idea. I would say that black's Knight sits much prettier on d4 than c6. Hahaha, as for ..Qc7, I somehow under the impression that ..e6 was already played, making Nd5 impossible. Sorry bout that one. I don't really respect the O'Kelly variation. I would say that ..a6 definitely has a place in the Sicilian, but not in all variations, which is why you should play one of the other moves I mentioned. I don't really see too many GM's rocking the O'Kelly. Hahaha....maybe I will start....
'I don't want this post to come off like me sounding like a jerk, I just want to prove my pt. Thanks!' <-- You? Never! 😀 Take it easy! 🙂
Allow me:
1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Bb5 Nd4 looks a bit clumsy to me because White just moves the bishop to c4 asking Black 'what was that demonstration for?' What would be the point of a6 after this? I fail to ...[text shortened]... ever come with a satisfactory answer to this 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Bb5 I will let you know...
Originally posted by AlopintoThat's a good idea...
I think that in the end I will stick to the program because of my stylistic preference: Play 3...g6 and learn how to play with the doubled pawns [ It is not that terrible... ][/b]
3...g6 followed by Bg7 and, if white insist in take the knight in c6, try to get some advantange from the half-open b-column where the b7 pawn is something fixed by the g7 bishop.
At this position d6 develops the queen's bishop and reforce an open h8-a1 diagonal...
1 edit
Originally posted by AlopintoI hate to give away my secrets, but I found it at http://www.chesslab.com/PositionSearch.html
" An interesting idea against it is 3 ..... Na5 as in Tan v. Hamdouchi, Montpleier, Fra. where the idea is simply to avoid the doubled pawns and then play 4 ..... a6, chasing the Bishop. "
I have never seen that one but will check it ...[text shortened]... how to play with the doubled pawns [ It is not that terrible... ]
a suberb database of over 2 million games! I see no reason why you can't fianchetto the King's Bishop in this line; Hamdouchi did it by move 9 and won in 31 moves!!
1 edit
Originally posted by !~TONY~!No, 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6.
In response to Alopinto, I still maintain that either 3...Nd4 or 3...Qc7 followed by 4..a6 makes his Bb5 move look a little out of place. In response to you, not played Nc6 until you play a6 is a pretty bad idea. This basically means that ...[text shortened]... like me sounding like a jerk, I just want to prove my pt. Thanks!
I guess I didn't look at the original position closely enough, because there's a good chance I would transpose into it via:
1. e4 c5 2. Nc3 d6 3. Bb5+ Nc6.
What's wrong with this position again? I'd better look at the original post.
Hmm I see. He pushed d5 instead of d6 like I generally do, and that gave his Knight a little home on e5. However Black doesn't have a light square Bishop any more so pushing f6 isn't that big a deal.
I apologize for responding before reading the post carefully.