01 Dec 12
Originally posted by SwissGambitI tried an hour but couldn't do this one.
Let's try this again!
There is no pawn on h7. My apologies.
M. Caillaud
[fen]6k1/p1p1p1q1/p1n1p3/1p1r1p1b/6p1/r3b3/8/8 w - - 0 2[/fen]
Position after Black's 20th move. Gamescore?
(White's pieces are hidden)
Here's what I had:
Black's 20 Moves (In No Particular Order)
1.g5
2.Bh6
3.dxc6
4.Bg4
5.Bh5
6.fxe6
7.0-0
8.Rf3
9.Ra3
10.g4
11.hxg6
12.gxf5
13.Be3
14.Qd4 (or Qf8)
15.Qg7
16.cxb5
17.bxa6
18.Nc6
19.Rd8
20.Rd5
This gets all the pieces to the correct squares, but there is a major problem.
Getting rid of the g8 knight in time to do all this is hard, and it makes me question everything.
All I can see for move 1 is g5. Move 2 only seems to have Bh6 or bxa6 (which is not much help). After g5 and Bh6, you have to quickly ditch the g8 knight.
Unfortunately, at that point, a bishop can't get in and a queen would take with check. The queen needs to come in without Bh6 being player, or a knight must get in and out in time. A knights only entry without check is at h6. To get to h6, you must move the bishop to e3. After the bishop gets to e3, it is too late to castle and play Rf3-Ra3, which is necessary before Be3.
The g8 knight is my whole problem.
Here's an example of what I mean:
I may even be wrong about the 20 moves at this point! Something isn't working for sure.
01 Dec 12
Originally posted by mikelomThe same thing can (as has been) said about chess playing in general, but to each his own ... 🙂
What a ridiculous task, and waste of time. There are eons of plays that could arrive in this postiton. Stop trying to be so one-upmanship in pretending there are only one or two variations. Pathetic waste of thought time.
-m. ðŸ˜
01 Dec 12
Originally posted by mikelomAre you talking about the Caillaud problem? If you are, you just put your foot in your mouth in a big way.
What a ridiculous task, and waste of time. There are eons of plays that could arrive in this postiton. Stop trying to be so one-upmanship in pretending there are only one or two variations. Pathetic waste of thought time.
-m. ðŸ˜
02 Dec 12
3 edits
Originally posted by paulbuchmanfromficsYes, it hinges on how to remove the Ng8.
I tried an hour but couldn't do this one.
Here's what I had:
Black's 20 Moves (In No Particular Order)
1.g5
2.Bh6
3.dxc6
4.Bg4
5.Bh5
6.fxe6
7.0-0
8.Rf3
9.Ra3
10.g4
11.hxg6
12.gxf5
13.Be3
14.Qd4 (or Qf8)
15.Qg7
16.cxb5
17.bxa6
18.Nc6
19.Rd8
20.Rd5
This gets all the pieces to the correct squares, but there is a major p I may even be wrong about the 20 moves at this point! Something isn't working for sure.
You have everything right, except for one assumption.
02 Dec 12
Originally posted by SwissGambitI tapped out on that one last night. I better just stick to the easy (easier) ones. I'm waiting to see the solution now, but you can give others a chance first.
Yes, it hinges on how to remove the Ng8.
You have everything right, except for one assumption.
02 Dec 12
3 edits
Hi Mike.
Admitingly these things are not to everyone's taste but it's far better than reading
about all the engine - whinging and looking at alleged sandbaggers graphs.
"There are eons of plays that could arrive in this postiton."
For a start look at the pawn structure.
There have been 6 pawn captures, that b5 pawn must have come from d7.
Go back to the original diagram.
And count how many moves it would take each piece to get to the sqaure
they are on from their original position.
Queen (d8-g7) 2 moves
a3 Rook (a8-a3) 3 moves
d5 Rook (h8 to d5) 2 moves.
(that is assuming these are the correct Rooks - the a3 Rook could have come from h8)
h5 Bishop (c8-h5) 3 moves.
e3 Bishop (f8-e3) 2 moves.
c6 Knight 1 move
The other Knight must get chopped by a white Knight on g1 to save a tempo.
King one move with castles (after what ever has taken on g1 has hopped off.)
So add up the moves and that is 20 moves.
The stipulation is:
Position after Black's 20th move.
So you can see it does appear there is only one way this can be done.
Black must (with the aid of White) get his moves in the correct order.
02 Dec 12
1 edit
Originally posted by greenpawn34Black also made 8 pawn moves, which brings your total to 22. Black needs to save 2 moves. [Paul's post has the list of the 20 moves in random order].
...count how many moves it would take each piece to get to the sqaure
they are on from their original position.
Queen (d8-g7) 2 moves
a3 Rook (a8-a3) 3 moves
d5 Rook (h8 to d5) 2 moves.
(that is assuming these are the correct Rooks - the a3 Rook could have come from h8)
h5 Bishop (c8-h5) 3 moves.
e3 Bishop (f8-e3) 2 moves.
c6 Knight 1 move
...[text shortened]... s (after what ever has taken on g1 has hopped off.)
So add up the moves and that is 20 moves.
Originally posted by paulbuchmanfromficsSolution to Caillaud:
I tried an hour but couldn't do this one.
Here's what I had:
Black's 20 Moves (In No Particular Order)
1.g5
2.Bh6
3.dxc6
4.Bg4
5.Bh5
6.fxe6
7.0-0
8.Rf3
9.Ra3
10.g4
11.hxg6
12.gxf5
13.Be3
14.Qd4 (or Qf8)
15.Qg7
16.cxb5
17.bxa6
18.Nc6
19.Rd8
20.Rd5
This gets all the pieces to the correct squares, but there is a major p I may even be wrong about the 20 moves at this point! Something isn't working for sure.
03 Dec 12
Originally posted by SwissGambitHoly cow! Interposing a WHITE piece at f8 never even crossed my mind! Brilliant!
Solution to Caillaud:
[pgn]
1. e4 {Black needs all 20 moves to reach the position: 2: Ra3, 2: Rd5, 2: Qg7, 1: 0-0, 8: pawn moves, 1: Nc6, 2: Bh5, 2: Be3. Ng8 is missing, and there is no time to move him. Therefore, white must capture him. But how?} 1... g5 2. Bb5 Bh6 {Because of time constraints, Black must open with these two moves. But this means h ...[text shortened]... 6 Be3 {and not 18...bxa6? 19.f4 and the Bishop is blocked.} 19. f4 bxa6 20. f5 gxf5 *
[/pgn]
I can sometimes think outside the box but only in small sperts. 😳
Thanks for posting that. I enjoyed it, even if I did (sadly) give up on it.
Believe it or not, even after I gave up, ideas kept coming to mind. I had a Qf8 (to block the check) idea yesterday morning when I woke up. The sad thing is that sleepy-eyed, you don't realize the king is in the way. 😴
03 Dec 12
Originally posted by paulbuchmanfromficsI wish it was only 2! I did tons of preview-only edits only to discover that the problem was on my end.
P.S. I love that the solution took you 2 edits to put in. You deserved a little trouble for that braintwister. hehe
The two edits you see were the easy part - restoring the commentary to the original form after screwing around for half an hour trying to debug the PGN viewer.