I just left Fritz to look at top 2 moves for move 25 & after 12 minutes it had:
1. +- (14.46): 25.Rd1 Bg7 26.Qxb7 Nd7 27.Rxa8 Nc5 28.Qe7 h5 29.d7
2. +- (12.79): 25.Qxb7 Kg7 26.Qxa8 Nd7 27.Qxc6 Ne5 28.Qb7 h5 29.d7
With the 30 second analysis after 25.Re1 & top 1 move Fritz I got:
25...Rf5 26.Rd1 Bg7 27.Qxb7 Nd7 28.Qxa8 a4 29.Re7 (+-17.38)
so certainly there are several strong alternatives at move 25 & Black's position steadily deteriorates after 25.Re1 in the above line as it also does in the other choices which it initially preferred.
So let me get this straight TomTom232 - Three years ago you were asking RahimK for advice on how to get to 1400, and now you're capable of matching Fritz' top three moves for 36 out of 37 non-book moves in a 25 minute game?
I don't know what you're trying to achieve by this thread, but I don't believe these are your games.
Originally posted by Fat LadyI wasn't trying to achieve anything. I was just curious. I wanted to see if the obvious moves were actually as good and obvious as I thought. In the second game I can name over half the moves that any solid 1700 player should spot. And the last game I didn't think the sacrifices would be in Fritz's top moves but after ...Qxd4+?? those moves are pretty obvious too. In these games it was just tactics its not like I'm spotting Fritz's top moves against a GM who isn't blundering the game away. Did you look at the games or just the match-ups? Look at the games and name all the moves you wouldn't be able to find. I doubt its very many if any at all. Plus one was a two hour game one was cc and one was thirty minutes. The thirty minute one was the double muzio.
So let me get this straight TomTom232 - Three years ago you were asking RahimK for advice on how to get to 1400, and now you're capable of matching Fritz' top three moves for 36 out of 37 non-book moves in a 25 minute game?
I don't know what you're trying to achieve by this thread, but I don't believe these are your games.
Originally posted by Fat LadyWow! Are you suggesting any impropriety on the part of tomtom?
So let me get this straight TomTom232 - Three years ago you were asking RahimK for advice on how to get to 1400, and now you're capable of matching Fritz' top three moves for 36 out of 37 non-book moves in a 25 minute game?
I don't know what you're trying to achieve by this thread, but I don't believe these are your games.
Originally posted by CCNoobYes. But I'm not accusing him of engine use on RHP as these games were not played on this site. I don't think these games were played by him at all.
Wow! Are you suggesting any impropriety on the part of tomtom?
The third game was 25 minutes a side, according to the game header. The most obvious non-human move is 38.Qg4. It prevents the back rank mate, but any human would stop this with 38.h3 or 38.h4 in case they accidentally moved their queen away from protecting d1. It is particularly impressive since sacrificing the knight with 37.e7 only really makes sense if White intended to follow up with 38.Qg4. This game looks like one played between two programs from a set position.
Originally posted by Fat LadyYes 38.Qg4 is the "point" to 37.e7 you rarely encounter a sacrifice where the following moves would make sense even if the sac wasn't played. Qg4 serves a dual purpose so is not as hard to see as you claim. It guards d1 and allows for threats like 39.Qc8+ and 40.Qe2+ which was played and moves out of a potential Rd7 pin. as I don't see how any other 38th move let's you d that it makes logical sense. I also beg to differ when you say most people would move a pawn to ensure their is no backrank mate especially when, even though its a clearly won position here, moving the pawn let's go of the initiative. I believe you would find that most would prefer a way to guard the backrank, especially when they won't have need of a permanent guard (I.e the rook is forced to c5), with another means than moving a pawn.
Yes. But I'm not accusing him of engine use on RHP as these games were not played on this site. I don't think these games were played by him at all.
The third game was 25 minutes a side, according to the game header. The most obvious non-human move is 38.Qg4. It prevents the back rank mate, but any human would stop this with 38.h3 or 38.h4 in case they a ...[text shortened]... llow up with 38.Qg4. This game looks like one played between two programs from a set position.
Edit: The header is squelch's not mine.
Edit2: leaving the night en prise is also the quickest way to promotion and I think another queen is worth a whole lot more than a knight. For example, if black refuses the knight and chooses to pin the pawn to the queen then the pawn still promotes by, once again leaving the knight hanging while getting out of the pin with Qd4 threatening mate. All in all I find it a pretty logical sequence of moves... And I also find it hard to believe that nobody would be able to see that tactic? Its a classic example of deflection... The rook moves away from the defense of the queening square only to find that he can't get back to defending it once he leaves.
PLAN: in every game of chess the goal is obviously to checkmate your opponent but it would be silly to start calculating for a checkmate at every move. No, what we should do is being about SITUATIONS that will allow us to complete the ultimate goal. To do that we make plans. The plan here if you follow the logic given above is painfully simple. It is to promote the pawn for obviously another queen will speed up the mating process.
CURRENT SITUATION: Black currently threatens mate on his next move.
Moves that PERMANENTLY prevent said mate: 36.h3, 36.h4, 36.g3, 36.g4, and 36.Kg1.
Moves that TEMPORARILY prevent mate: 36.Nb5+, 36.Nd5+, 36.Bd2, and 36.Qg4.
Let's eliminate some moves here.
36.Bd2 obviously doesn't help accomplish the plan or anything else for that matter because of 36...Rxd2 and we're back in the same boat a bishop down.
36.Kd1 prevents mate and looks promising but black can foil our plans(which you must assume he will try) with 36...Rd1+ 37.Kf2 Nd3+ 38.Ke2 Nxf4+ 39.Kxd1 Nxe6(black is inexplicably playing on in a lost position and just trying to stave off mate. The loss of a rook is trivial) now we can't promote the pawn but this line looks promising so I will store it away for now.
36.h3 this allows the black rook to get behind the criminal pawn after 36...Rd1+ 37.Kh2 Rd8 but we have to go further. The moves that block the rooks access to the pawn are 38.Be5 and 38.Nd5+ followed by 39.Ne3. After 38.Be5 has 38...Nc6 and 38...Rxe5 39.Qxe5 Nc6 and the night can dance around and sac itself for the pawn whenever I play e7 but this is also a promising line and will store it away along with all the other pawn moves that prevent mate.
36.Nb5+ can be forgotten because 36...Ka6 and the knight is hanging and mate is still threatened.
36.Qg4 and just 36.Nc6 and we are not helped any we moved the queen away from any potential discovery tactics onto a closed diagonal but if we follow our plan that diagonal will open and after a peak ahead with moves like 36.Nb5+ and 36.Nd5+ the king is now longer guarding the c8 square so Qc8+ check possibilities appear.
Now 36.Nd5+ has some special merits. First, since it comes with check while blocking the d file it gives you an extra move with which to do things. That is just with a first look at it and I am already thinking about using that extra move and letting it hang because another queen is better than a knight! So after 36.Nd5+ Kc6(forced) we have the knight hanging and after it falls we have to defend mate to avoid that we have 37.Ne3 but then black simply has 37...Rd8 and plan foiled so now to use that extra move I have to think about my plan and use my extra move that I previously mentioned. First, the problem with mate after ...Rxd5 can be solved by all the mentioned moves and can be eliminated systematically.
37.Bd2 eliminated for same reasons
37.pawn moves eliminated because they don't help the plan and the knight just falls without accomplishing anything.
37.Qg4 is interesting but the diagonal is not opened YET and black can play 37...Nxd5 so the only logical move for 37 is 37.e7!! Because it follow the PLAN, OPENS THE DIAGONAL, threatens 38.exd8.
Now we know the move to play let's consider some black responses.
37...Rd8 fails because of the knight fork
37...Rc8 is interesting and does in fact stop us from obtaining two queens but we are still winning after 38.e8(Q) Rxe8 39.Nxe8+ and mate will soon follow so this is not a bust.
37...Rxd5 the critical response but easily parried unless we have a serious brain fart and forget the reasons for our previous moves. The obvious continuation is 38.Qg4! Putting black under the necessity of doing two things at once and Which we had planned. Threatens 39.Qc8+ which if black doesn't prevent then after 39...Kb5 40.e8(Q)+ plan accomplished and if 39...Ka7 then we can trap the king up in the corner and mate is trivial. So the moves that prevent this are ...Nc6 and ...Rc5 neither move also prevents e8(Q) objective accomplished.
Originally posted by Fat LadyAre you suggesting that the phrase "calm down ladies" has never come to your attention before? I go to a few different forums and it has been used to tell people to stop fighting. There are actually 608,000 occurrences on google.
I've got a question for you CCNoob - how much can you bench press?
http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=104216&page=3
http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=112660&page=4#post_2112008
Originally posted by CCNoobThere are over 600000 matches on Google if you don't quote it. Just over 4000 if you do. If you include the full phrase "Hey, calm down ladies" it's down to 21.
Are you suggesting that the phrase "calm down ladies" has never come to your attention before? I go to a few different forums and it has been used to tell people to stop fighting. There are actually 608,000 occurrences on google.
If you include site:redhotpawn.com you just get one hit as the one as CCNoob hasn't been indexed yet.
Come on Jie, you've been outed. Be a good sport and admit defeat. Come back in a few weeks in a new disguise and see if you can stay hidden a bit longer.
So if I can show you this same exact phrase from unrelated people on sites this is just a coincidence? What other sites do you go to unrelated to chess? I also used the phrase "get your knickers in a twist". How many times does that occur on the interknit? I'm either dealing with an illterate grandee or an obnoxious little fella who thinks the world revolves around him/her.
A better answer would have been to answer his question and feign ignorance to his implications.
It was almost as if you were arguing that you were not Jie before he actually accused you of being Jie. He actually used a clever tactic and you fell for it.
I bet that when he implied you were Jie by asking how much you bench that he wasn't 100 percent sure and was waiting on your reaction to get his answer. If he was 100 percent sure then it must have been for other reasons and not just your use of the phrase "calm down ladies." You really had no excuse to miss that.
Originally posted by CCNoobI'm just pointing out that a policy of ignoring rather than arguing is usually best.
tomtom, the obnoxious littleman already said whatever he wanted to say. I would be worried about playing you on chesshere.com or wherever you played those games because the littleman hints that that, was actually Fritz and not you.