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wanna see why I don't play the sicilian?

wanna see why I don't play the sicilian?

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p
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this is what happens when I play the sicilian...

Game 762338

lets go move-by-move, eh?

1. book.
2. book.
3. necessary to permit Nf6
4. necessary to guard against Ng5 followed by b/nxf7
5. not visibly unreasonable. no real alternative.
6. only way that bishop's going to get active with the d pawn imprisoned
7. ditto
8. forced
9. forced
10. forced
11. just about forced. same way after he repeates positions and uses the other knight.
12. forced
13. forced
14. (upcoming) queen gone by force, resigns.

WHERE WAS THE BLUNDER?????????????????????????????????????

T

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You mixed up different systems: if you played e6, don't play g6. 6...Nf6, a6, Be7 would be better.

t

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Originally posted by paultopia
this is what happens when I play the sicilian...

Game 762338

lets go move-by-move, eh?

1. book.
2. book.
3. necessary to permit Nf6
4. necessary to guard against Ng5 followed by b/nxf7
5. not visibly unreasonable. no real alternative.
6. only way that bishop's going to get active with the d pawn imprisoned
7. ditto
8. fo ...[text shortened]... g) queen gone by force, resigns.

WHERE WAS THE BLUNDER?????????????????????????????????????
1. Okay
2. Okay
3. I would have played e5. It is a book move in the minor closed variations. Which so far this game is following.

t

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Originally posted by TovMauzer
You mixed up different systems: if you played e6, don't play g6.
Good point. g6 left you with an ugly pawn formation.

T

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Originally posted by trekkie
Good point. g6 left you with an ugly pawn formation.
And not only this. After e6, you need your bishop on f8-a3 diagonal to support d6 pawn, so, in addition to weakening your dark square complex, g6 just looks pointless.

no1marauder
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Originally posted by paultopia
this is what happens when I play the sicilian...

Game 762338

lets go move-by-move, eh?

1. book.
2. book.
3. necessary to permit Nf6
4. necessary to guard against Ng5 followed by b/nxf7
5. not visibly unreasonable. no real alternative.
6. only way that bishop's going to get active with the d pawn imprisoned
7. ditto
8. fo ...[text shortened]... g) queen gone by force, resigns.

WHERE WAS THE BLUNDER?????????????????????????????????????
Basically, Tozmauzer right; you don't play e6 in the Dragon (which I don't like anyway). The black Bishop in most lines of the Sicilian goes to e7 for defense of the Knight on f6 and the Queen pawn; there's simply no rush on move 6 to play to worry about how it's going to get into play. The Bishop and the Knight on the King Side are for defensive purposes while you get your counterattack set up on the c-file. a6, b5, Bb7, Qc7 and Rc1 are the moves you should be worrying about; the whole point of the Sicilian is Queen side attack; play the Najdorf and keep that White Knight off b5 and you'll be fine.

p
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thanks guys. gotcha. no g6 when e6.

t

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Originally posted by paultopia
thanks guys. gotcha. no g6 when e6.
Except the next time you play me 😀 😀 😛


-trekkie

L

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Originally posted by no1marauder
Basically, Tozmauzer right; you don't play e6 in the Dragon (which I don't like anyway). The black Bishop in most lines of the Sicilian goes to e7 for defense of the Knight on f6 and the Queen pawn; there's simply no rush on move 6 to play to worry about how it's going to get into play. The Bishop and the Knight on the King Side are for defens ...[text shortened]... an is Queen side attack; play the Najdorf and keep that White Knight off b5 and you'll be fine.
never play that a6 - b5 plan in the dragon, its to slow your opponent will be much quicker now on the kingside instead just play the queen to a5 and dubble the rooks on the c file and then maybe you can blay b5 b4 or sometimes sac a rook on c3

m
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LOL, sorry Paul, but that final position is so funny, I've never seen a Sicilian look like that!

Anyways, you were setting up for the Sicilian Scheveningan by the looks of it, then you tried to transpose it into a Dragon (a weak simple Sicilian IMHO that's overated), then you paulsened your center, bad ideas, you cannot go from one variation of a Sicilian to another, and expect to win. In this game, it looks like you tried the Scheveningan, Narjdof, and Dragon, did you read a book about Sicilians and somehow got them mixed up together in your head? That's possible.

There was nothing bookish about what you did. In most Sicilians, you have to play a6 at one time, if you do not play a6, his knights will eventually advance and kill you, and that's exactly what happened. Anyways, he played a weak move himself, as a 1900 white player, and that was playing Bc4 too early IMHO (I know this is called the Sozin attack, but the bishop came out too early still), if you played a6, followed by b5, and then maybe fianchetto the queen bishop or move the queen to c7, you would gain considerable tempo and queenside space and that would make up somewhat for the mistakes you made on the kingside, although you probably still would of lost, but it would make it harder for your opponent.

Also, one of my favourite positional strats with Sicilians and players who play Bc4, is to trade off my queen's knight for their favourite bishop, this is easy to do and works wonders, you might try it someday.

p
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Originally posted by mateulose
LOL, sorry Paul, but that final position is so funny, I've never seen a Sicilian look like that!

Anyways, you were setting up for the Sicilian Scheveningan by the looks of it, then you tried to transpose it into a Dragon (a weak simple Sicilian IMHO that's overated), then you paulsened your center, bad ideas, you cannot go from one variation of a Sici ...[text shortened]... book about Sicilians and somehow got them mixed up together in your head? That's possible.

See, that's the thing. I don't know the reams of sicilian theory. I know some of the general ideas. "dump the heavy wood down the c file." "consider rook sacs on c3." "consider developing the dark-square bishop in fianchetto." "watch out for enemy outposts on d5" -- that's about the extent of my sicilian knowledge. I intended to play the kalishnikov, which I'm trying to learn, but I never get to because my opponents always play moves that force me to transpose into lines that I don't know. I wouldn't know a sozin from a paulsen from a najdorf from a barneythepurpledinosaur. I mean, I don't even really use (though I at least have access to) KG theory forgodssakes! I tend to leave theory in that, my best opening, around move 5.

I guess if I'm going to play the sicilian (and I still haven't found any other opening as black against e4 that works for me) I'm going to have to memorize reams of theory. Aah well. It looks like that's just the way it is.

Thanks for the info!

no1marauder
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Originally posted by paultopia
See, that's the thing. I don't know the reams of sicilian theory. I know some of the general ideas. "dump the heavy wood down the c file." "consider rook sacs on c3." "consider developing the dark-square bishop in fianchetto." "watch out for enemy outposts on d5" -- that's about the extent of my sicilian knowledge. I intended to play the ...[text shortened]... ams of theory. Aah well. It looks like that's just the way it is.

Thanks for the info!
Paul, I don't think you need to learn reams of theory in the Sicilian (though it helps), simple guidelines can get you through. One of my rules is that if White plays Bc4, I immediately respond with e6. If you do that and you know that you don't mix e6 with a Kingside fianchetto, you'll avoid the type of problem you got in that type of game. Know what the basic Sicilian setup is and that it is directed toward Queenside attack down the half-open c file and you're fine. Of course, you have to look for a lot of tactics relatively early in the game but hey, that's your cup of tea - enjoy!

m
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Paul, try the Sicilian Taimanov, it works well against players who play an early Bc4, and in most cases, players around our level love playing Bc4. In fact, checking this site and gameknot site, 2.Bc4 happens in 60% of c5 games, and Bc4 before move 6 (in Fischer's Sozin, Bc4 is done at move 6 I beleive), happens in 75% of games. Of course, players above the 2000 range will most likely not play Bc4, and know better, but who cares about them, right? That's why I play the Taimanov, it is good against 75% of Sicilian games for players below 2000 rated, it's a good anti Bc4 opening, and I remember you complaining about Bc4 a while back on ANY OPENING, so this may suit you. Look up the Taimanov.

AThousandYoung
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If you play e6 you need to play Be7 to hold the d6 Pawn which is weak. I'd have played 6...Nf6. Also I generally play an early ...a6 to keep my opponent's minor pieces off b5.

"consider rook sacs on c3."
I didn't know that. That's a nice tidbit to help my Sicilian.

"consider developing the dark-square bishop in fianchetto."
I almost never do this. I don't play Dragon.

"watch out for enemy outposts on d5"
Not an issue for me because I push e6. It sounds some of these hints are Dragon specific.

I guess if I'm going to play the sicilian (and I still haven't found any other opening as black against e4 that works for me) I'm going to have to memorize reams of theory.
Not at all. I know my basic moves - e6, d6, Nf6, Nc6, a6, b5, Bb7, Be7, 0-0. That will get you through the opening pretty much against anything if you do them in the order the position demands. After that fight along your open file and protect your weak d Pawn, and you're set.

I try really hard to avoid ever playing e5, though it's standard for the Najdorf (I think), because it leaves that beatiful outpost for White on d5.

L

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Originally posted by AThousandYoung
If you play e6 you need to play Be7 to hold the d6 Pawn which is weak. I'd have played 6...Nf6. Also I generally play an early ...a6 to keep my opponent's minor pieces off b5.

[b]"consider rook sacs on c3."

I didn't know that. That's a nice tidbit to help my Sicilian.

"consider developing the dark-square bishop in fianchetto." ...[text shortened]... 's standard for the Najdorf (I think), because it leaves that beatiful outpost for White on d5.
that rook sac on c3 is only to be considered in the yuguslav attack of the sicilian dragon... just so you know(:

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