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Well, I think this forum has no where else to go. TheBigKat has gone silent now because he knows that there is nothing else to say (not that he ever said anything productive to begin with) and he is just going to hold tight to his charade.
The main reason for my post remains the same. The Thread title is my answer for guys like TheBigKat, since redhotpawn is no longer policing it's own site anymore. I would love for others to join me in this boycott, but everyone else needs to decide for themselves what to do when faced with an opponent like this. I appreciate everyone who took the time to post their opinions and expertise on this matter and I think this post has at least put our highest rated player under scrutiny.
Thanks again,
Al
Hello Al!
You have put a fight even when the system is against you.
My sister used to tell me: "If you have a problem, don't talk to the clown, you need to talk to the owner of the circus".
RHP administration is moral and LEGALLY responsible of the present situation. It looks like they are not giving a good service. It comes to my mind the favorite verb in America: "sue".
A group of players can hire a lawyer and start a legal action against RHP because it is its DUTY to keep a site where the rules of fair play are being followed by ALL THE PLAYERS. It is interesting, there is a clan of lawyers in the site, probably they can give some advice about this matter.
Why do you stop with TheBigKat? There are more engine users in the site.
Check the top players' games you will be able to make a "black list".
If you know player XXXX is an engine user, and player YYYYYYY draws against him, there are chances that YYYYYYY is also an engine user, just follow the "crumbs".
I know there is a tournament called "the big guns", I am quite sure that some games are going to be very revealing about who is who in the site.
Do you remember the last round of the RHP 2013 Tournament?
That is another source of games that deserves some attention, considering that TheBigKat won the event.
If you ask Zygalski maybe he can give you a hand, probably you can check one player every two weeks. It is not going to be easy, but it can be a start.
Good Engine-Hunting!! 🙂
Originally posted by radicalcppEven if suing the site (and in effect paying subscribers) were legally sound it would not solve anything. The Terms of Service are almost entirely related to the obligations on any individual signing up and delineating RHP's lack of liability for very much if anything at all about the service it provides. It certainly doesn't say it will keep you free from moves provided by other users' chess engines. It just asks account holders to agree not to use them.
RHP administration is moral and LEGALLY responsible of the present situation. It looks like they are not giving a good service. It comes to my mind the favorite verb in America: "sue".
A group of players can hire a lawyer and start a legal action against RHP because it is its DUTY to keep a site where the rules of fair play are being followed by ALL TH ...[text shortened]... g, there is a clan of lawyers in the site, probably they can give some advice about this matter.
Nobody, not even Zygalski, can guarantee that. He can only show when an account holder has matched engine moves to higher degree than unassisted humans have previously achieved and therefore who is most likely using one. He can try other things like error rates, screen history, pgn downloads, as well as any identified "bugs" or engine foibles to add to the evidence but even after all that he will not catch everyone using an engine, every time they do. Even if banned the user can easily return with another name and play again.
I can quite understand why Russ might have disbanded the moderation team. Some of them were suspects themselves on match up rates and were policing other users who were direct challengers to them in tournaments. A system that was doomed to fail and clearly lacked the credibility of independence. Under that system He may well have feared action by a banned user (despite the Terms of Service para 13) citing bias, and any number of if's and buts you read in defence of such players on this forum every day. Any reinstated system should be independent, admin based and should not pit user against user. I'm not holding my breath.
It is my belief, with some anecdotal evidence, that at almost every time control, at every rating level, on every server whatever the rules of the server you will encounter at least some moves that have been suggested to the user by a chess engine. Humans have shown that they cannot be trusted with motor cars, guns, money, children, women etc in civilization so the idea they can be trusted with a chess computer is laughable, never mind what goes on in the jungle.
I think many players of my generation who played postal chess before electronic assistance was available to the common man, have gone through the stages of grief for that form of the game. Denial, anger and acceptance along with bouts of depression as to the state of humanity. So now I play with the attitude that my opponents only purpose is to provide a move against which to test my chess skill and understanding at the level of effort and application I wish to apply to the game. I also content myself with the thought that users such as TBK are simply living their lives in the service of their chess engines and come the day will have a blank and worthless obituary.
If he was any good as a centaur he would be on ICCF trying to win their money tournaments or an engine driver's title, but would probably have to spend hundreds keeping his software, hardware and databases up to date as well as hours running all the tablebase generators for all his 7+ piece endgames. So continues the search for chess truth - Whoop de doo 😛
Originally posted by radicalcppJust make sure you have "many documents" when you get your case together.
Hello Al!
You have put a fight even when the system is against you.
My sister used to tell me: "If you have a problem, don't talk to the clown, you need to talk to the owner of the circus".
RHP administration is moral and LEGALLY responsible of the present situation. It looks like they are not giving a good service. It comes to my mind the favori ...[text shortened]... every two weeks. It is not going to be easy, but it can be a start.
Good Engine-Hunting!! 🙂
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I don't believe suing is the answer. I think there is way too much suing going on in this country. Besides, there is nothing to sue over. Redhotpawn is not liable for no longer policing their site. They provide a venue for people like me to play chess and meet new people and stay in contact with old friends. The ultimate punishment for redhotpawn's failure to keep the site void of immoral characters like TheBigKat is people choose to leave and take their internet chess games elsewhere. I have run into a number of very good players that have already left or they are presently finishing out their games for just that reason.
Yes, we could start a blacklist because TBK is surely not the only cheater on this site. Radicalcpp had posted his own forum months ago when we both found ourselves playing Solving in Style in a common pool. SIS had no losses . . . . none, while playing over 160 games simultaneously! Radicalcpp saw that he had played TBK and they had drawn all of their games. He did his own analysis and realized that both of them were using a search engine.
I had my own discussions with SIS and at least he was cordial about it. I think he has a conscience, unlike the arrogant BigKat. (SIS now has 3 losses. He resigned both his games to me, even though he had winning advantages and did so also against a 1500, where he was also winning. Why, I can only speculate, but he has not lost since). Both argued that other people were cheating and asked why was I singling them out. Quite frankly, I was just reacting to the players I came across in my games.
I don't want to spend my free time fighting and discovering all of the cheaters on this site. I also don't expect others who have provided analysis to carry that burden either. I just wanted to at least expose TheBigKat for who he really is and give my suggestion of how to possibly handle players like him.
I sent another feedback under the heading of fraud to redhotpawn tonight and asked for a response. I referenced my previous request in which they never responded, and I even pointed them to this forum. Maybe if other players did the same, we could get some answers and better yet, some results. I'll let you know if I should hear back from them.
Thanks again for all of your input.
Al
Originally posted by cardinalalWould you please get it straight? A search engine is like google or ask. Using a search engine during a game is legal, whether you like it or not, as long as you don't link to a chess engine or table base you're okay.
I don't believe suing is the answer. I think there is way too much suing going on in this country. Besides, there is nothing to sue over. Redhotpawn is not liable for no longer policing their site. They provide a venue for people like me to play chess and meet new people and stay in contact with old friends. The ultimate punishment for redhotpawn's f ...[text shortened]... I'll let you know if I should hear back from them.
Thanks again for all of your input.
Al
Chess engine- not legal
search engine- no problem
Big friggin difference! I'd think you'd know the difference.
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Originally posted by ChessPraxisThanks for putting me straight on the difference between a search engine and a chess engine. Please substitute chess engine for search engine in all of my posts. 🙂
Would you please get it straight? A search engine is like google or ask. Using a search engine during a game is legal, whether you like it or not, as long as you don't link to a chess engine or table base you're okay.
Chess engine- not legal
search engine- no problem
Big friggin difference! I'd think you'd know the difference.
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Originally posted by tvochessYou have a very valid point. I am aware that not that many people even looked at this forum or even know forums exist. I'm not inclined to private message everyone TBK is playing and point them in the direction of this thread. For one thing if they are already past the 2 move delete stage, they may as well play out their games.
Maybe you could PM current opponents of cheaters and refer them to the evidence in this thread, because I don't think many read the forum.
I am pointing all of my friends on this site to this forum and I welcome everyone else, who wants to do the same with their friends, to do so; this would be helpful in getting the word out. 🙂