10 May 04
Originally posted by SirLoseALotI still think that Bc5 is not completely senseless. After d4 Bb6, bishop pins d4 pawn after white's 0-0. But I'm agree with your last sentence:-)
1e4,e5 2.f4,exf4 3.Nf3,Bc5 4.d4,g5 5.dxc5,g4 6.Qd4! and you won't get the Qh4+ in which just leaves you a B down.Unless you are willing to give up your rook too,in which case I'll be more than willing to take the white side 😀
Having said all that,I never meant that Bc5 isn't playable,if you retreat it to b6 or e7 it's far from over.But in my opinio ...[text shortened]... sense,I would never make such a move myself.Unless I'm really drunk,then maybe.....
Sir Lot.
10 May 04
Originally posted by SirLoseALotI'd go so far as to say it isn't playable. I mean, someone 200+ points over me could still trash me with it, I'm sure, but heck, someone 200+ points over me could probably trash me with damiano's defense. 🙄 Between players of roughly equal ability, I think the player who plays Bc5 in that position loses. White just gets too much of an advantage -- all those tempi up, PLUS getting the pawn back for free, plus owning the f file free and clear -- if the white player is a halfway competent attacker, black won't even get off the ground.
Having said all that,I never meant that Bc5 isn't playable,if you retreat it to b6 or e7 it's far from over.But in my opinion it doesn't make any sense,I would never make such a move myself.Unless I'm really drunk,then maybe.....
Sir Lot.[/b]
10 May 04
Originally posted by TovMauzerAdmittedly, the d4 pawn is pinned. But so what? Even if white burns a move on Kh1 somewhere in there, there's still a huge development advantage?
I still think that Bc5 is not completely senseless. After d4 Bb6, bishop pins d4 pawn after white's 0-0. But I'm agree with your last sentence:-)
10 May 04
Originally posted by paultopiaDefinitely. Black loses 1 tempi to put bishop on a7-g1 diagonal, in the opening like KG 1 tempi is a big asset. But there are worse 3d moves for black, not counting blunders. Ke7 for example. And even this move is not completely senseless - it defends f7:-)
Admittedly, the d4 pawn is pinned. But so what? Even if white burns a move on Kh1 somewhere in there, there's still a huge development advantage?
10 May 04
Originally posted by TovMauzerWell, my main point is that not only does black lose the tempo, but also gives up the center, AND gives the gambit pawn back for free with a developing move for white.
Definitely. Black loses 1 tempi to put bishop on a7-g1 diagonal, in the opening like KG 1 tempi is a big asset. But there are worse 3d moves for black, not counting blunders. Ke7 for example. And even this move is not completely senseless - it defends f7:-)
Ke7? Yea, that might be worse. 😉 If only because you do NOT leave your king in the center against the KG. Anyone who leaves the king in the center against the KG LOSES. 😀 Something usually happens... well, something much like this.
Game 488555
Where my opponent, who is a very good attacker (I invited him into the Virgin Sacrifices solely on the strength of his terrifying attack against me in another game, which I only barely beat down with the most accurate defense I could come up with despite having a good 200 rating points on him), decided to attack the KG, but left his king in the center. I whipped up a counterattack with queen and pawn, supported by a bishop, and he resigned facing a mate in two. (although he took a rather interesting twist on the Bc5 thing in the start, it all transposed out right anyway.)
That's not nearly so common though. It seems like everyone who hasn't actually studied the KG defaults to that Bc5 thing. I think I've only lost one game, out of many many KG games I've played as white, where black has played that move. And that one wasn't on move 3, it was on 4, AFTER Nc6 (ie. much less insane), and the point was to sac the bishop and get the h check. And it still took me blundering into a mate-in-one (this was a blitz game) to lose.
12 May 04
1 edit
WOW. I found an even WORSE third move for black in the king's gambit.
3. ... f6
ESPECIALLY when followed by 4. ... g5.
Uh... isn't this the fools mate? :-) Granted, it took 11 moves and a sacrifice to do it... but really now.
courtesy of fics.... (gad my rating is low there.)
[Event "FICS rated standard game"]
[Site "FICS, Fremont, California USA"]
[Date "2004.05.12"]
[Time "16:03:47"]
[Round "-"]
[White "paultopia"]
[Black "amartinho"]
[WhiteElo "1275"]
[BlackElo "1390"]
[TimeControl "900+10"]
[Mode "ICS"]
[Result "1-0"]
1. e4 e5 2. f4 exf4 3. Nf3 f6 4. Bc4 g5 5. Nxg5 fxg5 6. Qh5+ Ke7 7. Qf7+ Kd6 8. d4 Nh6 9. e5+ Kc6 10. Qd5+ Kb6 11. Qb5#
{Black checkmated} 1-0
Looks like one of those Greco v. NN kills
Total time for all my moves: 48 seconds.