29 Feb 04
1 edit
Originally posted by LenzarI don't get this either. Here's a slightly different problem (just off the top of my head, it should work but I'm not sure):
White king on b1, white pawns on a2, b2 and c2.
Black king on e1, Black rook on h1.
Black mates in 1.... what is the move?
On one chessboard, White has his king on a1, and Black has his rooks on e1 and h1, and a bishop on f5. Another board is exactly the same, except that Black's bishop is on f3. There is a fundamental difference between these positions; what is it?
01 Mar 04
Originally posted by Lenzarblack cannot castle for mate as his king and rook must have moved since the black king starts on e8!
Ok, now I'll make it harder....
White rook on h2, preventing Kd2,e2,or f2. NOW what is the mate in one? 😉
if you were thinking about doing that, it won't work.
nor will it work on the other side (putting white king on b8 and pawns on a7, b7, c7, rook on h7, black king e8,m rook h8, or in fen, 1K2k2r/PPP4R/48, how do you stop white from promoting the c-pawn to block the check after black castles? if you pin that pawn, say, with a bishop on f4, then castling is mate in one.
01 Mar 04
3 edits
Originally posted by Acolyteobviously, the bishop had to discover check to make it a legal position. since black's bishop could have moved from d1 to f3 to discover check in the second example, that position is legit if we put a black king on any legal square except e2 or anywhere on the first rank. to make it more of a problem, however, put white pawns on a2 and b2 (or black king on a3 or b3) to restrict white's moves (and thus produce mate) since otherwise you have essentially no difference.
I don't get this either. Here's a slightly different problem (just off the top of my head, it should work but I'm not sure):
On one chessboard, White has his king on a1, and Black has his rooks on e1 and h1, and a bishop on f5. Anot ...[text shortened]... e is a fundamental difference between these positions; what is it?
the first example, however, looks as if the black bishop could have started on b1 and discovered check by going to f5, but this is not the case! if black's bishop would have been on b1, what was white's last move? (of course, white could have had something on f5 which black captured to discover check. to overcome this possibility, put a white pawn on c2 (or black king on d3) in both positions, making the bishop's travel from b1 to f5 impossible.)
another which appeared in chess life many years ago was this: 40/7k/PPnP4/KRB5 (the position of the black king is irrelevant).
white stands smothered mated, right?
or does he?
these are examples of a promlem-solving technique called retrograde analysis which is often useful and sometimes necessary.
here is another: 6k1/ 8/4r1q1/8/4Kp3/16. what was the position one and a half moves ago if all moves must conform to the rules of chess?
01 Mar 04
Originally posted by BarefootChessPlayerOops, forgot to put a black king on the board. Retrograde analysis is exactly what I was thinking of though 🙂
obviously, the bishop had to discover check to make it a legal position. since black's bishop could have moved from d1 to f3 to discover check in the second example, that position is legit if we put a black king on any legal square except e2 or anywhere on the first rank. to make it more of a problem, however, put white pawns on a2 and b2 (or bl ...[text shortened]... what was the position one and a half moves ago if all moves must conform to the rules of chess?
01 Mar 04
Originally posted by BarefootChessPlayerYeah, but there has been NO PREVIOUS PLAY in a chess puzzle. Thus, neither the king or rook have moved and 1...0-0 is legal 😉
black cannot castle for mate as his king and rook must have moved since the black king starts on e8!
02 Mar 04
I-T D-O-E-S-N-T M-A-T-T-E-R! In the X amount of moves white and black made, black made 7< moves to get his king to e1. HOW IT GOT THERE MATTERS NOT! Bottom line is if your rooks aren't on a8 and h8 and your king isn't on e8, you aren't castling. Never in my life have I seen a puzzle this ridiculous. Ok, just for the giggles, lets assume that your "castle" move is legal. It still isn't a puzzle because on the first move you have 4 solutions, 3 king moves and "0-0" (notice the quotes, indicating the two finger bob with both fingers, indicating I think this is ridiculous) Where are these puzzle rules you read, or did you write them yourself? 😲
02 Mar 04
Originally posted by LenzarThis is much harder. In fact, it's impossible. But since that's already been explained at length...
Ok, now I'll make it harder....
I'll give a beautiful position which incorporates your original theme of the the King discovering a Rook check on his nemesis, who is trapped on the rank (remember this hint).
The position arises from Ed Lasker -vs- Sir George Thomas:
1. d4 f5 2. Nf3 e6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bg5 Be7 5. Bxf6 Bxf6 6. e4 fxe4 7. Nxe4 b6 8. Bd3 Bb7 9. Ne5 O-O 10. Qh5 Qe7
FEN: rn3rk1/pbppq1pp/1p2pb2/4N2Q/3PN3/3B4/PPP2PPP/R3K2R w KQ - 0 11
Eight more moves and Black's done. Have fun!
02 Mar 04
1 edit
Originally posted by huntingbearEasy! With that Bishop on d3 and the Knight being there for the discovered attack, it is obvious white should take on h7 with the Q, from there on it's simple.
This is much harder. In fact, it's impossible. But since that's already been explained at length...
I'll give a beautiful position which incorporates your original theme of the the King discovering a Rook check on his nemesis, who i ...[text shortened]... R3K2R w KQ - 0 11
Eight more moves and Black's done. Have fun!
11.Qxh7+ Kxh7 12.Nxf6+ Kh6 13.Neg4+ Kg5 14.f4+ Kh4 15.g3+ Kh3 16.Bf1+ Bg2 17.Nf2#
Olav
EDIT: Boy, do I feel like Bobby Fisher! 😀
02 Mar 04
Originally posted by LivingLegendHmmn. That seems in order. In fact, it's quicker than the one I had in mind. It would seem there are several solutions! The one I had in mind results in the discovered Rook check I mentioned. I follow yours until I differ with:
11.Qxh7+ Kxh7 12.Nxf6+ Kh6 13.Neg4+ Kg5 14.f4+ Kh4 15.g3+ Kh3 16.Bf1+ Bg2 17.Nf2#
14. h4+ Kf4 15. g3+ Kf3 16. Be2+ Kg2 17. Rh2+ Kg1 18. Kd2#
This position was printed in The West Australian newspaper on the 8th of June 2002. I solved it this way, and this is the solution in the paper, so I never thought to look for others 😳
Proves that even when you've found a good move you might find something better 😀
Notice that 18. O-O-O# works too.
Perhaps my favorite variation would be (from my solution after 15...Kf3) 16. O-O and after Black does anything he likes, 17. Nh2#. Very pretty!