29 Oct 07
I go to an apple store and order minus five apples. The store owner hands me a bag of something and i go home. I open the bag and dump out the contents. What comes out of the bag? If it's nothing, shouldn't the apple guy have to refund my money or should he have paid ME for the minus apples, and why didn't i order 100 minus apples thereby making it a capitalist's dream?
Granny
29 Oct 07
Originally posted by FabianFnasFabian PLEASE get in touch with my bank .. they tell me I have banked a negative amount of money with them!!
A number of apples is always positive. There exists no such thing as negative amount of apples, not even zero apples.
Any attempt ot use negative amount of apples is beyond the real world and should be treated as abstract mathematics.
29 Oct 07
Originally posted by wolfgang59Highly abstract, negative coins.
Fabian PLEASE get in touch with my bank .. they tell me I have banked a negative amount of money with them!!
In fact, it was the bank people once who invented negative numbers, only to deal with loaned money. In Venezia at the 15th centuray, I think.
30 Oct 07
2 edits
Originally posted by smw6869It's a bag of money.
I go to an apple store and order minus five apples. The store owner hands me a bag of something and i go home. I open the bag and dump out the contents. What comes out of the bag? If it's nothing, shouldn't the apple guy have to refund my money or should he have paid ME for the minus apples, and why didn't i order 100 minus apples thereby making it a capitalist's dream?
Granny
No - it's empty. He's waiting for you to bring him the apples. The bag is so you can bring the apples back with you.
30 Oct 07
The minus sign is usually used to indicate a direction opposite to the normal one.
When you buy apples, the apples go from the store to you and the money form you to the store.
Buying negative apples would indicate apples going from you to the store and the money from the store to you. In other words, selling apples.
Bank people inventing negative numbers? Possible, but I think it more likely that mathematicians needed negative to get inverses under addition.
30 Oct 07
Originally posted by TheMaster37From the beginning not even the mathematicians didn't like negative numbers. Some didn't even accept the existence of them. They thought of negative numbers as positive with a certain property only. "Negative number of apples? Rubbish!"
Bank people inventing negative numbers? Possible, but I think it more likely that mathematicians needed negative to get inverses under addition.
Even the bankers and economists didn't like negative numbers, therefore we have something, even today, that is called 'double Italian book-keeping. Instead of counting with negative numbers they summed the positive amounts separately and called it debit, and summed the negative amounts and called it credit. No need for the minus sign. Then debit and credit should be equal, if not ... you know.
The invention of negative numbers is a great leap forward, beginning with the economists and bankers, followed by mathematicians who gave a mathematical study of them.
30 Oct 07
Originally posted by TheMaster37That level of formality in maths wasn't invented until later.
Bank people inventing negative numbers? Possible, but I think it more likely that mathematicians needed negative to get inverses under addition.
Although according to Wikipedia, the concept of negative numbers had existed quite a long time in the East before western bankers started using them. Again, often for representing debts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_numbers
30 Oct 07
Originally posted by mtthw
That level of formality in maths wasn't required until later.
Although according to Wikipedia, the concept of negative numbers had existed quite a long time in the East before western bankers started using them. Again, often for representing debts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_numbers
30 Oct 07
Originally posted by AThousandYoungLet's get down to the nitty gritty. Can Granny, somehow, use this negative stuff to screw the store owner and get Free money for myself. Then i wouldn't have to work. Oh! isn't that what bankers do every day?
It's a bag of money.
No - it's empty. He's waiting for you to bring him the apples. The bag is so you can bring the apples back with you.
Granny
02 Nov 07
Originally posted by smw6869Sort of. It's called not paying your credit card bill.
Let's get down to the nitty gritty. Can Granny, somehow, use this negative stuff to screw the store owner and get Free money for myself. Then i wouldn't have to work. Oh! isn't that what bankers do every day?
Granny
02 Nov 07
Originally posted by smw6869So you sold him 5 apples and he put the moolah in the bag, what's the big deal about that? You didn't order a minus 100 apples because you only had 5 total.
I go to an apple store and order minus five apples. The store owner hands me a bag of something and i go home. I open the bag and dump out the contents. What comes out of the bag? If it's nothing, shouldn't the apple guy have to refund my money or should he have paid ME for the minus apples, and why didn't i order 100 minus apples thereby making it a capitalist's dream?
Granny
02 Nov 07
Originally posted by smw6869How much did you pay for these minus five apples? Minus 2 dollars?
I go to an apple store and order minus five apples. The store owner hands me a bag of something and i go home. I open the bag and dump out the contents. What comes out of the bag? If it's nothing, shouldn't the apple guy have to refund my money or should he have paid ME for the minus apples, and why didn't i order 100 minus apples thereby making it a capitalist's dream?
Granny