27 Jan 07
Originally posted by FabianFnasIt's wise of you. Thanks Fabian.
I think you've analized the situation correctly.
I assumed the same from the beginning and therefore I quoted him and gave a brief explanation of the misunderstanding of that quotation, giving him a chance to correct his misstake before losing face. Instead he began to lecture me.
But this is a quite common missconception that measure of weight and ...[text shortened]... ady know.
Gino is of course already forgiven and with this I also put this story behind us.
I never meant to lecture you or belittle you, the reason I quoted " top secret😛" information is that I thought you were confused about missconception that measure of weight and measure of mass.
By the way, just FYI "I knew" long before that mass is same anywhere in the universe -despite gravity- (And you are right) unless converted to energy.
Thanks mtthw for your help too.
27 Jan 07
Originally posted by FabianFnasNo don't put this story behind us. I would like to throw some oil on the fire here please.
I think you've analized the situation correctly.
I assumed the same from the beginning and therefore I quoted him and gave a brief explanation of the misunderstanding of that quotation, giving him a chance to correct his misstake before losing face. Instead he began to lecture me.
But this is a quite common missconception that measure of weight and ...[text shortened]... ady know.
Gino is of course already forgiven and with this I also put this story behind us.
Why is Gino already forgiven before showing 'his real face' ?
No no no (forgot I wrote that, lets say I'm to lazy to erase that), my real question is; if mass is the same everywere in the universe, will a halve kilogram of feathers will weigh the same as a halve kilogram gold on the moon? Or does density (if that is the correct word) make the weight differ on different places in the universe.
And how about a balloon filled with helium, it has got mass, but its lighter than air, so it seems to have a negative weight here on earth.
Lets say we took a thousand helium balloons and the equivalant mass in gold, the weight will differ in various places if I'm not mistaken.
Oh and Gino feel free to comment without saying where the information has gotten from, since I'm just curious
27 Jan 07
1 edit
Originally posted by gonnawhoopyourassI am wrong in every argument that takes place in RHP forums because my name is Gino J.
No don't put this story behind us. I would like to throw some oil on the fire here please.
Why is Gino already forgiven before showing 'his real face' ?
No no no (forgot I wrote that, lets say I'm to lazy to erase that), my real question is; if mass is the same everywere in the universe, will a halve kilogram of feathers will weigh the same as a ee to comment without saying where the information has gotten from, since I'm just curious
28 Jan 07
Originally posted by gonnawhoopyourassWhat's the point with that?
No don't put this story behind us. I would like to throw some oil on the fire here please.
Gino knows the difference between the measure of weight and the measure of mass, I know, everyone knows.
Are you telling us that you don't know?
Or are you serious with your questions? You really want the answers?
Or do you just want to see people fighting? Sorry to disappoint you...
28 Jan 07
Lets just say I like to see emotions come into the discussion.
But more important, I don't fully understand the difference between weight and mass seriously.
If we take a ballon filled with helium on the equator, but the balloon is old and it doesn't go up or down so the weight is zero, at least when you put it on a scale that is. Now take the same ballon to one of the poles and the balloon suddenly will weigh something, not much , but at least something, lets say 0,0001 gram.
Am I right?
Now we take 0,0001 gram gold as well and compare the weight of the balloon and the gold on diferent spots on the world.
The gold will weigh a bit less on the equator but not zero.
So the question what weighs heavier 0,0001 gram gold or 0,0001 gram heliumfilled balloon? has to be answered with; depends on what place on earth you'll weigh it.
If gold and a heliumfilled balloon will weigh different on different spots, what does it say about feathers and gold?
Oh, and please don't fight, but keep your emotions alive.
28 Jan 07
Originally posted by gonnawhoopyourassIf you want stirred emotions in the discussion, don't count me in.
Lets just say I like to see emotions come into the discussion.
But more important, I don't fully understand the difference between weight and mass seriously.
If we take a ballon filled with helium on the equator, but the balloon is old and it doesn't go up or down so the weight is zero, at least when you put it on a scale that is. Now take the sa ...[text shortened]... it say about feathers and gold?
Oh, and please don't fight, but keep your emotions alive.
Read you f*ing 7th grade book of physics yourself, if you're able to understand it.
Is this the kind of emotions you wanted? Well, you got it.
28 Jan 07
Originally posted by gonnawhoopyourassThe weight of an object is given by its mass multiplied by the local acceleration due to gravity. It is the acceleration due to gravity (usually labelled g) varies from place to place. But this formula always applies.
my real question is; if mass is the same everywere in the universe, will a halve kilogram of feathers will weigh the same as a halve kilogram gold on the moon? Or does density (if that is the correct word) make the weight differ on different places in the universe.
And how about a balloon filled with helium, it has got mass, but its lighter than air, so it seems to have a negative weight here on earth.
So 1kg of two substances will weigh the same if measured in the same spot.
OK, now lets consider the helium balloon. It does have (positive) weight on Earth. The problem is how you're trying to measure it. Because you're in an atmosphere there is also an upwards force due to this, and in the case of helium this upward force is greater than the weight.
If you could measure your helium balloon in a vacuum on Earth, you'd see it did weigh a positive amount.
(Except, of course, putting a helium balloon in a vacuum is likely to make it expand and burst! Try a tin of helium instead.)
28 Jan 07
Originally posted by mtthwWell, we don't weigh gold and feathers in a vacuum environment. we weigh it in our normal atmosphear. My question is; could it be that that atmosfere (how do you write that?) causes that a halve kilo of feathers could weigh different compared to a halve kilo gold, when you weigh it in different parts of the world?
The weight of an object is given by its mass multiplied by the local acceleration due to gravity. It is the acceleration due to gravity (usually labelled g) varies from place to place. But this formula always applies.
So 1kg of two substances will weigh the same if measured in the same spot.
OK, now lets consider the helium balloon. It does hav ...[text shortened]... ium balloon in a vacuum is likely to make it expand and burst! Try a tin of helium instead.)
So I'm not talking about what it's mass is, but what it's weight is. And could the atmosphere have a tiny influence on that?
28 Jan 07
Originally posted by gonnawhoopyourassThe atmosphere has no effect on weight. But it does have an effect on attempts to measure weight, if you're not careful to avoid it. You can get round it easy enough if you know the volume of what you're wanting to measure.
Well, we don't weigh gold and feathers in a vacuum environment. we weigh it in our normal atmosphear. My question is; could it be that that atmosfere (how do you write that?) causes that a halve kilo of feathers could weigh different compared to a halve kilo gold, when you weigh it in different parts of the world?
So I'm not talking about what it's mass is, but what it's weight is. And could the atmosphere have a tiny influence on that?
If something is a lot denser than air, it makes little difference, which is why you don't usually worry about it.
31 Jan 07
Originally posted by FabianFnasHey, I'm only 13.7 billion years old. I ain't no old fart 14 billion years old. Jeez.
This must be a joke only appealed by americans. Their unit system seems to be very chaotic.
For me a kilogram is always a kilogram always a kilogram, in fethers or in gold.
About the foot experimen: Try a pound of led. Doesn't heurt as much but give a clue about the gould.
When I ask a pupil how hot there is in the interiour of our sun I get the an ...[text shortened]... usually says "It is 14 billion of years. It read that in a book. It is a bit older today."
31 Jan 07
Originally posted by mtthwYou get around that problem by just putting the scales and the stuff to be weighed in a vacuum, atmosphere problem all gone.
The atmosphere has no effect on weight. But it does have an effect on attempts to measure weight, if you're not careful to avoid it. You can get round it easy enough if you know the volume of what you're wanting to measure.
If something is a lot denser than air, it makes little difference, which is why you don't usually worry about it.
31 Jan 07
2 edits
Originally posted by mtthwActually, if the vacuum tank was not being actively pumped and there were no leaks, the helium would still weigh the same, it would just be distributed all over the inside of the tank, as well as the pieces of the former balloon so it wouldn't make any differance if it was broken or whole, as long as the tank was not being actively pumped ATT. I know about this stuff, I work in a cleanroom with vacuum equipment.
The weight of an object is given by its mass multiplied by the local acceleration due to gravity. It is the acceleration due to gravity (usually labelled g) varies from place to place. But this formula always applies.
So 1kg of two substances will weigh the same if measured in the same spot.
OK, now lets consider the helium balloon. It does hav ium balloon in a vacuum is likely to make it expand and burst! Try a tin of helium instead.)
So if you were weighing the entire tank you could theoretically weigh the helium. BTW in the distant past, you will find I have put up a bunch of helium balloon problems. If you want I will resurect some of them. Some of the guys here will start pulling what's left of their hair out however🙂